Author Topic: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive  (Read 24195 times)

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« on: June 17, 2015, 01:31:56 PM »
I am starting process to replace the final drive pinion gear oil seal.  I have three questions:

Q1.  Clymer manual says to "heat final drive unit neck to 250 deg F" to uncsrew the threaded ring (the oil seal is recessed into the threaded ring).  Does anyone know if heating the final drive case to 250 deg F would cause damage to the ring gear oil seal?  I was NOT planning on replacing the ring gear oil seal.

Q2.  Clymer manual also says to "coat the threaded ring with Hylomar SQ37 grease" prior to reassembly.  Is the Hylomar product supposed to be applied to threads only?  or... to the cheeks, too?

Q3.  I did a little web research on Hylomar products and can't find anything about Hylomar SQ37.  I found that their "Universal Blue" product is the current version of what used to be called SQ32.  Is Universal Blue the generally accepted product for this application?


Thanks, in advance for any assistance.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline billday

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1341
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 07:58:16 AM »
I did the ring gear seal on my monolever final drive, here are my notes:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,580.msg9690.html#msg9690

When I noticed my pinion gear seal leaking, I did inquiries about fixing it. People pointed out the torque values involved and then I decided just to live with it. If you decide otherwise, please by all means let us know how it goes and post a writeup.

Thanks.
  • New York State, USA 10977
  • 1985 K100

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 11:20:11 AM »
billday,

Thanks for advice.

I had just read the "ibmwr/ktech/final-drive-seal" blog earlier this week (like you, I thought the duct tape "drift tool" was a pretty nifty solution).

I was also a little nervous about high torque values (130 - 160 ft-lbs) for the the pinion gear nut - my torque wrench only goes up to 100 ft-lbs!  A friend has an up-to-150 ft-lb version that I'll borrow (and we'll see how THAT goes).

I'll post some notes / photos when progress is made!
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2015, 10:59:13 PM »
Tools for replacing pinion oil seal:

1.  In lieu of buying the BMW threaded ring removal tool (p/n 33 1 700), I made my own.  I modified a length of 2" ERMC-S (steel electrical conduit) and had it welded to a 1-1/2" socket.  Note: Layout of pins required much attention to detail.


2.  I also made my own version of the BMW case holding fixture (p/n 33 1 500) from a piece of 1/4" iron plate that I use for a router base.  I drilled four holes, but I probably could've gotten by with 2 holes.  Again, layout was key and I did practice holes in a piece of scrap wood first.  To bolt final drive case to the iron plate I used (2) rear wheel bolts (in rear wheel bolt holes) and (2) socket head screws, that connect swing arm to final drive, (in case cover screw holes).


3.  Here's a list of all tools (and associated costs, if any) that I used for project:

    - custom threaded ring removal tool ($21) (see above)
    - custom case holding plate (see above)
    - 36mm x 1/2" drive deep socket ($22)
    - 8mm hex drive socket
    - 1-1/4" threaded PVC cap ($1) - substitute for BMW arbor (p/n 33 1 760)
    - 5" piece of wood - substitute for BMW handle (p/n 00 5 500)
    - hammer
    - insulated leather work gloves and silicone potholders
    - 1/2" drive breaker bar (borrowed) with a 42" long "cheater" (fence post)
    - 1/2" drive x 150 ft-lb capacity torque wrench (borrowed)
    - infrared temperature sensor (borrowed)
    - Hylomar Universal "Blue" ($12)
    - red Loctite ($6)
    - bench vise
    - coffee
    - music



Sequence of work to follow in next post...
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline Scott_

  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 07:05:02 AM »
Slipring-- I have a 1/2" x 250ftLb torque wrench and a heat gun available to borrow if you would be interested.
I'm just over in Marshalltown.
  • My Garage
1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
1997 K1100LT 0302488 (R.I.P.)
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 08:06:15 AM »
My 10 Step Program for Replacing the Final Drive Pinion Gear Oil Seal


Note:  The following sequences of work were gathered from Clymer Manual M500-3 – BMW K-Series 1985-1997, Chapter 11, Rear Suspension and Final Drive ©2002 and from BMW Repair Manual K75 – K100 LT All 2V Models, Chapter 33, Rear Wheel Drive, dated: 4.1988 / scann: 12.2011 (BMW p/n: 01 51 9 798 791)


1.Completely remove final drive from your K-bike and clean it thoroughly.

2. Remove plastic button from center of case, on the wheel side (so it doesn’t melt during heating operations described below).  Remove two screws that secure cover to the case.  Mount final drive to case holding plate (see photo in earlier post) - use (2) rear wheel bolts and (2) socket head screws that are normally used to connect swing arm to final drive.

3.  Use 36mm x 1/2" drive deep socket, breaker bar and “cheater” to break loose the hex nut surrounding the shaft splines.  Note: this nut was previously set at 130-160 ft-lbs with red Loctite… don’t be shy about using a long cheater bar and a friend.

4.  Heat final drive “neck” to 250 deg F with a heat gun.  Alternately, I put the entire final drive assembly - affixed to the case holding plate - on an old pan in the oven at 325 deg for 45 minutes.  I used an infrared thermometer and removed the drive when exterior temperature reading was 275 deg. Note photo below shows initial "oven bake" without case holding plate.  On subsequent runs, I did include holding plate, too.


5.Use custom threaded ring removal tool, breaker bar and “cheater” to break loose the threaded ring.
 
6.Use 1-1/4" threaded PVC cap, 5" piece of wood and hammer to remove pinion gear oil seal from the threaded ring (notches down) (see top picture below).  After cleaning threads, wipe a little final drive gear lube onto outside of new oil seal and inside of threaded ring.  Next, set the new oil seal (lettering side up) into the threaded ring (notches up) using the 1-1/4" threaded PVC cap, 5" piece of wood and hammer.  I used the flat part of the PVC cap facing down (see bottom picture below) so that cap would bottom out on the lip inside of threaded ring (the "lip" is best seen in freezer photo below).  BUT… the lettering side of the new oil seal needs to be recessed another 0.11 to 0.13” beyond the lip.  To do this you need to flip the PVC cap over and use the “threaded” end again.  The oil seal is very tight at this point and this last step takes patience – you don’t want to drive it too deeply or set it out of square – you might damage the seal trying to correct this depth setting or lack of square-ness from the reverse side.


7.Put the 36mm hex nut back in the oven and heat to over 300 deg f.  Use wire brush to remove old, hard red Loctite.  After nut cools down, add small amount (how to measure 0.1 gram?) of red Loctite to female threads of 36mm hex nut

8.Coat male threads of threaded ring and female threads inside “neck” of final drive with Hylomar Universal.  I probably got about 75% coverage on both.  Put threaded ring in the freezer for at least 15 minutes (save vodka for celebration when complete).


9.Heat final drive (and holding plate), similar to above, to around 200 deg F.  Set oven at 275 deg for 45 minutes.

10.By hand (using threaded ring tool) thread the cold threaded ring into hot final drive.  Use torque wrench to set ring at 80-90 ft-lbs (see left picture below).  By hand (using deep socket) thread the 36 mm hex nut into the final drive.  Use torque wrench and 42” cheater (and the help of my 18-year-old son) to set nut at 130-160 ft-lbs (see right picture below).


Success!

  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 09:21:09 AM »
johnny,  I hope my previous post answers your twerk wrench question!


Scott_,  Thanks for kind offer of tools.  Let me know if you ever need to borrow any of the unusual tools mentioned above.  Note:  I have (had) a heat gun and spent over 2 hours (!) looking for it with no success.  I think the "oven baked" method works well if you have the time for it.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline Motorhobo

  • +20 years of K75
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1512
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 09:10:39 PM »
What do you have the case holding plate secured to? Is see it in a vise -- is the vise secured to a bench which is bolted to the ground? I don't have any thing that wouldn't keel over under that kind of torque.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 193k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline billday

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1341
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 09:39:23 PM »
Best thread on Motobrick in many a day -- thanks!
  • New York State, USA 10977
  • 1985 K100

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 07:55:53 AM »
Motorhobo,  This probably isn't a good project for the Black & Decker Workmate!  My vice is mounted to a "built-in" shop bench made of 2x4's, etc. (by former homeowner).  I have one of the smallest bench vises (4-1/2") from Lowes - the only challenge was tightening down the base enough so it didn't rotate.

billday,  Thanks.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2015, 11:59:20 AM »
The heck with sending mine out... This is genius! I'm guessing I'm gonna be bringing the auto-tech teacher at my local high-school some liquid currency for use of his bench vise though. :2thumbup:
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2015, 11:05:58 AM »
jay1622,

Let me know if you have any questions if/when you decide to do this project.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 11:55:51 AM »
jay1622,

Let me know if you have any questions if/when you decide to do this project.

If I private message my home address, do you think you would mind sketching out a stencil from that final drive repair plate that you have locked in to the vice? I don't doubt I could put one together, but that would be awesome if you wouldn't mind doing that.

Properly heated, how much braking force do you think it will take to get the nut and ring off of the pinion gear?
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 05:13:50 PM »
jay1622,

Here's the dimensions that I used for bolt hole spacing for the case holding fixture / case holding plate (remember, I used two of each bolt, but could've gotten by with one of each):


I'm guessing that you'll have to break the threaded ring and pinion gear nut free by meeting, or exceeding, the torque specs.  From my Clymers Manual:

     threaded ring:  74 - 94 ft-lbs

     pinion gear nut:  130 - 160 ft-lbs


I used a 42" cheater/extension on my breaker bar.  I had a friend help keep the socket seated on the pinion gear nut (the socket kept wanting to ride up and slip off the thin nut).
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2015, 06:17:35 PM »
 Awesome! Thank you. I can use this to make a starter stencil, verify it and then start cutting and drilling.
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2016, 05:54:13 AM »
jay1622,

Here's the dimensions that I used for bolt hole spacing for the case holding fixture / case holding plate (remember, I used two of each bolt, but could've gotten by with one of each):


I'm guessing that you'll have to break the threaded ring and pinion gear nut free by meeting, or exceeding, the torque specs.  From my Clymers Manual:

     threaded ring:  74 - 94 ft-lbs

     pinion gear nut:  130 - 160 ft-lbs


I used a 42" cheater/extension on my breaker bar.  I had a friend help keep the socket seated on the pinion gear nut (the socket kept wanting to ride up and slip off the thin nut).

I'll be doing this today... Looking forward to posting the (positive) results. Thanks again!
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2016, 02:23:49 PM »
Done. That template you did was totally spot on!
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline billday

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1341
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2016, 03:29:14 PM »
after all that hard work your splines are looking good...

character builder...

j o

Our ray of sunshine.
  • New York State, USA 10977
  • 1985 K100

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2016, 07:03:50 PM »
jay1622, 

Congrats on successful changeout of pinion oil seal. Glad to hear that the dimensions worked out.  It's been a while since I thought about this project and it was fun to re-read old posts.  Good luck on remaining project steps.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2016, 02:35:12 PM »
There was a previous message I recall somewhere on this thread indicating my splines were trashed... It might appear that way; I noticed the bulges at the end of the input shaft, but there was zero rotational play between the male and female splines when I did a dry fit (before Staburags) in various stages of insertion (innuendo intentional). So far, so good!
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline gone_ape

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 135
  • 94 K75RT (Now Standard)
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2016, 10:06:39 PM »
If I may add my .02...I found a 4-pin 'Spindle Socket' that is a near perfect fit for the 'threaded ring' in the final drive.  It needs to have the sides of the 4 pins filed down by 1mm +- ...and that's it... 
The socket I purchased was from O'Reillys Auto Parts here in the States at about $20.00 US

O'Reillys part number W83010, Spindle Socket. Made by Performance Tool (UPC: 39564830105). It's 1/2 inch drive.

It 's designed for use on 1982-1990 3/4 and 1 TON GM heavy duty trucks,1985 to current 1/2 TON Ford F-Series and full size Bronco with DANA 28 front axle, 1985-1/2 to current Ford F-250 heavy duty truck, 1985-1/2 to current Ford F-350 4X4, DANA 50 IFS and Model 60 monobeam outer adjusting nut.

  • Austin, TX
  • 94 K75RT (Now Standard)

Offline gone_ape

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 135
  • 94 K75RT (Now Standard)
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2016, 10:23:03 PM »
It has to be modified ever so slightly....I'll explain....
The cavity in the final drive is 66mm ... the Final Drive 'threaded ring' has a diameter of 65mm.  This socket is 65.5mm and fits inside the bevel shaft cavity near perfectly.  The 4 'slots' in the threaded ring are  ~6mm wide and the 4 'tabs' on the socket as sold are 6.5mm. 


  • Austin, TX
  • 94 K75RT (Now Standard)

Offline gone_ape

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 135
  • 94 K75RT (Now Standard)
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2016, 10:38:29 PM »
This socket is Chrome Vanadium, (but finished in black)  and is plenty strong for this purpose.  If I had one doubt, it would be if these sockets have a manufactured random diameter within a few  mm, any larger and it would be too large to fit in the cavity.....there was only one in the store and I couldn't compare at that time....I would recommend maybe taking a vernier caliper with you to check that actual diameter before you buy.

I took a metal file and shaved the tabs (all 4) until I reached a little under 5.5mm...It took me probably 10 minutes total to do this...

 I elected to file each tab on one side only -  to keep some kind of alignment, and secondly, I wanted to have the "square face" of the untouched side of the tab to engage the threaded ring (for the removal process)  to minimize slippage just in case...On the tightening process, I'll have to review the fit of tab in slot and modify accordingly to get a good purchase on the ring.



  • Austin, TX
  • 94 K75RT (Now Standard)

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 09:04:04 AM »
Awesome... Fellow motobrickers figuring a better/cheaper/easier way to get things done!

I'm not going to tell you how long it took to make my "2 inch ERMC-S (steel electrical conduit) welded to 1-1/2" socket" hoodaki (see 6/21/15 post, above), but...  Let's just say that it took more than 10 minutes and $20.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline jay1622

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 283
Re: Replacing Pinion Oil Seal in K75 Final Drive
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2017, 09:21:29 PM »
In the event someone is lucky enough to stumble on this thread, and needs to replace their seal or service the FD, I used the following to pull the threaded ring. It did not require any machining or altering.


https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX0TG6942
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Tags: