K100rs fuel pump relay

[grant71]

i understand from the Lieberry catalogue that the fuel pump relay is on the left front in the relay box. please  correct me if i am wrong. Question is : how does one remove this relay from its station without damaging it. As posted in a previous Workshop my K100 rs will not start. engine turns  over dash lights are on but engine will not fire.

[Inge K.]

The relay you pull straight up from the socket.

Have you checked if you got power at the green/white wire at the tank connector, when
you push the starter button ? (you got a 2V if I remember correctly?)

Inge K.

[grant71]

thanks Inge. yes i put a tester on that 4 strand wire from under the tank. no continuity. But then being a novice it did not occur to me to press starter button. im waiting for a friend with a trailer to go fetch the bike. ill do it properly once its in my garage. Yes it is a 2 valve.

[grant71]

Inge. i tried for power on green white wire while starter button pushed. Nothing. i pulled the left front relay. Looked clean. replaced no. 6 fuse which according to Haynes is fuel pump. Nothing. now im stumped. dont know what else to try. Any suggestions please

[pdg]

Couple of silly questions:

Was the ignition on when you were pressing the starter button to test for voltage? Was the engine turning over but not firing?

[Inge K.]

Engine turning, but no power to the fuel pump,,,Paul.
----------------
Then you could check if you got power at the relay socket, ....terminal 30 unswitced, terminal 86 switched.
And that you got ground at terminal 85 for a couple of seconds, when the starter button is pressed.

If you don't measure ground at 85, check at the yellow/brown wire at the ignition ECU under the tank, which
is the other end of the wire (keep the ECU connected).

Still nothing.......check that you got power at the black/yellow wire at the ignition ECU, when pressing the
starter button.

If you got power at this wire......the ignition ECU is the problem.

Also check that the ECU itself have good ground, brown wire.

[pdg]

Wasn't aware it was already known - and where you went is where I was going next :laugh

I'll be in the corner playing with round nosed scissors...

[Inge K.]

Oh well........Grant is out and playing with some round nosed animals, down there in SA....

[grant71]

thank you Paul. yes ign on when i push starter . lights ok horn ok all ok except she wont fire. batt ok starter ok. now Paul i am a novice. pretend im a 4 yr old. i bought a 12 v tester. un switched 30 lights up. switched 86 lights up. 85 ground i dont understand the GROUND terminology. wheni puttester on 85 and pushed starter NO light up.  btw i put alligator clip on batt earth. is that right? and the point of tester to the indicated 86 or 30 etc.

[pdg]

Ground is the common negative - the frame. Eventually, everything is connected to the frame and through this to the battery negative.

With the tester you have the available tests are somewhat limited, you can test for a ground (sort of) at the relay socket though... For normal use, you have it connected correctly with the clip/negative lead to the battery negative terminal.

Put something like a paperclip (or other handy sized bit of metal) into the hole for 85. Connect the tester alligator clip (-ve, negative, black lead??) to this and the other side of the tester probe (+ve, positive, 12v, red connection??) to the battery positive. When you press the starter this should light up briefly. This test won't tell you how good the ground is, like a proper meter would, but it's a rough indication.

You could see if the relay is operating (at least mechanically) if you have a couple of spare bits of wire - connect pin 85 to battery negative and pin 86 to battery positive - the relay should click...

Also, maybe try another relay? Any 12volt relay with the same pins in the same place will work - there is nothing special about the BMW relay. 15Amp should be sufficient, 30Amp is probably a better long term thing.

Alternatively, find someone with a proper multimeter who knows how to use it and get them to follow the tests Inge described - they are 'better' tests that will tell you more.

[grant71]

thanks for that info Paul . i did as you suggested and pushed the starter. lit up briefly. i then usedwire to relay and  battery . the  relay clicked. does that tell me its working? there is 1 thing puzzling me. as i said im an amateur but the connectivity betw tank wire and wire on right side does not look original. looks like there is a shunt to accommodate a separate spare conn. say for gps or similar. ive taken a pic of this  arrangement but i cannot send it via motobrick. if you send me your em address privately then i can send it to you. that is of course if you d like to indulge me .he he ! my em 27763740208@vodamail.co.za im in Capetown and i reckon the time difference is 2 hours. thanks foryourinterest Paul and Inge.

[frankenduck]

To attach pictures to a post: Click on Attachments and other options below the text box and then click on the Choose File button.

[grant71]

the reason i cannot attach pics is i use a very simple Chinese device which is a key board with a built in modem. from the  key board wires connect to my tv set and all my pics and text msgs are tv size. its called a Webbox and my service provider does the software viz. VODACOM . this device only costs about 45 US dollars. furthermore vodacom give 100 MB of data free every month for 1 year. 100 mb cost about 5.5 US dollars.  so any which way you look at it, it s a good deal

[argent brick]

Send it to me and tell me where you want it posted

[grant71]

thank you Lynn. ill send a few pics to you for Workshop

[Inge K.]

As you now have confirmed that you got both power and ground signal at the relay socket,
next step would be to put the relay bck into the socket and measure if you got power at
fuse #6 for a couple of seconds while pressing the starter button.
You don't need to remove the fuse, you should be able to measure that on the top off the fuse.

Inge K..

[grant71]

hi Inge. thanks for your tip. yes there is power  at the no. 6 fuse when i press starter

[Inge K.]

Fuse #6 sits between the relay and the tank connector, since you didn't measure any power
at the green/white wire on the fuel tank connector...you have a open circuit between these.

It could be a idea to check that the front fuse connector (output) is clean and tight.
Terminal 9 at the heat management relay is also connected to this circuit, wires is spliced
at the fuse output terminal.


Inge K..

[grant71]

Where is terminal 9 and where is heat management relay

[Inge K.]

The heat management relay you find on the right side in the relay box,
it's white (light green, early models) and rectangular.
The different terminal codes is marked on the side of the relay housing.

Inge K.

[grant71]

The fuel pump saga continues. Today i replaced the tank conn. Made sure the relevant wires mated. Took my tester clip on neg and point on the green / white wire on the tank side of the new conn. Pushed starter button. Tester lit up. Assembled the fuel tank conn the 2 fuel pipes. Pushed starter. BIKE WOULD NOT START. Checked for  spark. Yes plenty. I suppose the next step will be to empty tank and remove the pump. Any suggestions pse

[Inge K.]

Before you removing the pump, you could check if you got power (and ground) at the pump terminals.
Smallest terminal is the positive feed, ......it have been some issues with bad connection on the
common ground connection at the level sensor base.

While down there, also try to feel if it's any small movements on the pump when pushing the starter button.
And if, try to reverse the pump (change polarity) to remove crud from the internals.......if you're lucky,
and check if the screen under the pump is OK.

Inge K.

[grant71]

Thanks Inge. Is nt it dangerous the mess about in the tank esp. Petrol vapour

[Inge K.]

As long you keep the test probe and clip tight against the pump terminals,
(and the test lamp internal connections is tight), it won't be any spark.

Inge K.

[grant71]

Hi Inge. I ve taken petrol car off and looked inside the empty tank. Ill never get my hands in there. I am waiting for a flexible tool. I intend taking off the nuts on pump. Attaching a wire to each terminal and then the wires to the battery  to test pump. Is this the correct procedure and do i run pump for a milli second  - -DRY ? No petrol ?