Author Topic: Valve Stem Oil Seals  (Read 12817 times)

Offline Zipster

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Valve Stem Oil Seals
« on: April 27, 2014, 07:10:03 PM »
Looks like I may need to replace the valve stem oil seals soon - my K1100LT is using some oil and getting a bit smoky even when warm. The bike has just turned 97,000 miles.

Anyone any experience of doing this or have any tips to pass on?

Any idea of a guide price for getting it done by a mechanic?

Thanks,
Al
  • Northern Ireland
  • 1996 K1100 LT SE - sold with 104,500 miles in 2015; 2001 R1150RT - 68,000 miles; 2013 Triumph Trophy SE - 50,000 miles; 2007 Harley Ultra Classic - 50,000 miles (Canada bike for stateside use only)
Add life to your days, not days to your life!

Offline wmax351

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2014, 08:06:33 PM »
It's not too hard, you have to get the valve springs off, which requires the head to be removed. It can be done with the engine in the frame. The 4 valve engine will require a bit more work, and smaller spaces than the two valve. You will need some special equipment, namely a valve spring compressor. You can make one with a large C clamp and an old deep socket.

Getting it done by a mechanic will be expensive. A good option would be to take the head off yourself, and bring/send it to a shop to do the work. They can replace/grind the valves or guides as needed as well.
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • 91 BMW K75 Standard, 98 Moto Guzzi California EV
Bikes:
Current:1991 BMW K75 Standard, 1998 Moto Guzzi California EV11
Past: '83 BMW R65LS, '75 Honda CB550F, '69 Honda CB175, 1999 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, 1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V, 1971 BMW R75/5 in Toaster outfit, 1979 Harley Davidson XLS-1000 Sportster Roadster

Offline Zipster

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 02:28:05 AM »
Thanks for that. I had thought about taking the head off or maybe even sourcing a spare!
  • Northern Ireland
  • 1996 K1100 LT SE - sold with 104,500 miles in 2015; 2001 R1150RT - 68,000 miles; 2013 Triumph Trophy SE - 50,000 miles; 2007 Harley Ultra Classic - 50,000 miles (Canada bike for stateside use only)
Add life to your days, not days to your life!

Offline tg4360

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 12:39:40 PM »
Smoking on acceleration or decell?

The first would be rings and the second is normally valve seals (Unless I am mistaken and would happily be corrected if I'm wrong.)

That said, I don't think I've ever heard of a brick needing rings.

Pulling the cams and buckets shouldn't really be difficult.  Depending on when it was last done, I'd spring for new gaskets, half moon seals and cover rubbers too.

tg

Tony G

'87 K100GS (Mutated from a K100LT)
'79 XS750 "The Triple"
'72 A65T "The T-Bolt"
'68 B25 "The Blue Bike"

Offline wmax351

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 05:28:20 PM »
Smoking on acceleration or decell?

The first would be rings and the second is normally valve seals (Unless I am mistaken and would happily be corrected if I'm wrong.)

That said, I don't think I've ever heard of a brick needing rings.

Pulling the cams and buckets shouldn't really be difficult.  Depending on when it was last done, I'd spring for new gaskets, half moon seals and cover rubbers too.

tg




I was going to mention that as well. Deceleration from closed throttle pulls a vacuum in the port, sucking oil through the valve guide and seal. Both of those wear out at high mileage. It can also pull oil through the rings, but the valve seals are more common, and make more smoke usually.


Is the smoke blue, white, or black? Oil use is normal on a K. Before you do a big job, lets make sure we're solving the right problem.


Bricks can wear out their rings, they are sacrificial to protect the nikasil. When I did a post-mortem on my K75 with ~100k miles (maybe more, not sure how accurate the ODO was, or if it was replaced under warrantee), there was definitely piston/cylinder wall clearance, and the rings seemed somewhat worn. I didn't measure them, but there did appear to be excessive gap. I could feel a slight ridge on the cylinder wall. There was less than ideal maintenance on the bike prior to my ownership, and I did a lot of hard miles (4000 heavily loaded, high speed) with a stuck open thermostat that I didn't discover until I was looking at data logs on the megasquirt. Lower temperature running does extra wear on cylinder walls, engines are clearanced for their proper operating temperature.


This is my DIY spring compressor. The foot of the clamp has a rag placed over it, and it is placed into the combustion chamber with the foot on the valve. The socket, with the access slot cut into it, is pressed down on the spring retainer, and the valve keepers are exposed and removed. Then the pressure is released. Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly. This is the trickiest part of the whole job, there is a real trick to getting the keepers in right, especially on the smaller 4v engines. After removing the springs and valves, you pull the seals off with pliers (they make special ones too, not always needed), and install the new ones. The new ones should be soaked in oil, and placed over the valve stem, and guided down. Then tap them into place with a deep socket or proper driver.  You have to be careful of the valve guides while removing the old seals, and careful of the seal lips while replacing the seals. Make sure all parts go back to the proper position where they came from.


If you are good with mechanical stuff, it's doable, but if you are unsure, get the head off, and remove the buckets and cams (label which cylinder/valve they came from), then take it to a shop. They can probably do the whole thing in an hour or two, and they already have the proper tools.

  • Albuquerque, NM
  • 91 BMW K75 Standard, 98 Moto Guzzi California EV
Bikes:
Current:1991 BMW K75 Standard, 1998 Moto Guzzi California EV11
Past: '83 BMW R65LS, '75 Honda CB550F, '69 Honda CB175, 1999 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, 1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V, 1971 BMW R75/5 in Toaster outfit, 1979 Harley Davidson XLS-1000 Sportster Roadster

Offline Zipster

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 06:20:50 PM »
I didn't see the smoke myself but I smelled it and my mate who was behind me saw it. He's a mechanic by trade and was the one who suggested it may be the valve stem oil seals. I don't think he fancies doing the job though.
  • Northern Ireland
  • 1996 K1100 LT SE - sold with 104,500 miles in 2015; 2001 R1150RT - 68,000 miles; 2013 Triumph Trophy SE - 50,000 miles; 2007 Harley Ultra Classic - 50,000 miles (Canada bike for stateside use only)
Add life to your days, not days to your life!

Offline richo2006

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2021, 11:20:59 PM »
Hello,

Years ago I was able to replace the valve stem seals on a V8 car engine w/o removing the heads by using compressed air to keep the valves closed and jury-rigged valve spring compressing tool.  Is it possible to replace the valve stem seals on a 16V K1100 w/o removing the head?

Regards,

Richard in Commerce Township, MI
  • Commerce Township, MI
  • K1100 LT

Offline daveson

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2021, 12:07:23 AM »
I recon so, but is this one of those times where you go "I wish I had an 8 valve brick"
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline Laitch

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2021, 04:53:00 PM »
Have you removed the camshaft cover, viewed the layout and compared it with the V8?
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline daveson

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2021, 03:37:28 AM »
I'm thinking 8V easier than V8

And 16V double the trouble.

I spose I'm going overboard by saying that because of the ridiculous lean angle of the side stand and a bit, you'd almost get away with not needing compressed air.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline alabrew

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 12:33:17 PM »
Having replaced a head before, it would probably be easier in the long run to go ahead and remove the head and do the seal replacement.
Once you are that deep, removing the head is just a few bolts away.

  • Birmingham, Alabama
  • 1985 K100, 1991 K100RS
Also:
2005 K1200LT
1979 R65
200,000 miles on BMW motorcycles

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Valve Stem Oil Seals
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 03:47:37 PM »
Having replaced a head before, it would probably be easier in the long run to go ahead and remove the head and do the seal replacement.
Once you are that deep, removing the head is just a few bolts away.

Absolutely!  Been there, done that, but it wasn't where my oil was going.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

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