Author Topic: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block  (Read 24283 times)

Offline rbm

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1939
As I have mentioned in previous posts to other discussion threads, I'm designing and building circuits to adapt the K100 electrics to aftermarket gauges.

Gear Indicator and Start Enable Board

The TGPI design has gone through a few iterations, with the current version 4.1 being based on a micro-sized Arduino processor.  This design is adaptable because of the on-board computer and can display the gear in a multiple of ways:
  • With a numeric digit using a 7-segment 0.39" LED display
  • With up to 6 LEDs, each LED representing a selected gear
  • With a direct connection to an aftermarket Koso gauge which has inputs for displaying a selected gear
  • With up to 6 incandescent bulbs, similar to the LEDs, but for a retro look when placed behind a bezel
As shown in the photo below, there is a separate 7-segment display board with a cable length of 150mm, however a custom length can be provided if required..  The intention with such a short cable is that the board and display will be together in an enclosure.  It is possible that this arrangement does not meet with your intended design.  When ordering, I will exchange information with you to understand how and where the board will get use.  This allows me to tailor the display umbilical cable to a length that suits your build.

The Gear Indicator and Start Enable Board also has circuitry to amplify and condition the speed signal coming off the rear drive. Many modern aftermarket speedometers require the use of an active inductive sensor that outputs large voltage levels (>7 volts) for the meter to work properly.  This usually means adding a magnet and aftermarket sensor to the front wheel to get that signal.  The variable reluctance (VR) sensor in the final drive of the K100 is not capable of reproducing these active signals without help.  The circuit on this board will amplify the weak VR signal from the K100 sensor, making it usable for a range of aftermarket speedometers.  This means one can re-purpose the OEM sensor and avoid adding additional sensors to the bike..  This feature means that you don't have to use the manufacturer's speed sensor and worry about finding a place to mount it.

I have developed the next version of the TGPI board (v5.2).  This version includes new functionality and a fundamental change in the design.  There is a circuit now that will condition the engine RPM signal available on the Black/Blue wire (Pin 16) of the OEM cluster, and make the signal compatible with aftermarket tachometers.  I have also included a more robust power supply onboard along with a resettable fuse and transient voltage protection.  This will result in a more robust reliable board than previous designs. Finally I have integrated a circuit on the tachometer output that adjusts the signal to make it compatible with one particularly popular Chinese aftermarket gauge.



The overall size of the board is 4cm X 6cm.

The change in design with v5 means that I manufacture the board based on the type of display you desire.  There are two versions of the build and unfortunately, they are not interchangeable between themselves.  That means we collaborate during the ordering process to make sure I supply you with the correct version of the board.

The tested board and LED display is targeted at $75.00 CDN plus shipping.

TGPI User's Manual Online

Speed and Tachometer Conditioning Circuitry:

If all you're interested in is just the speedometer amplifier circuitry or just the tachometer conditioning circuitry or both, it is possible for me to build only that function on the board and largely ignore the rest of the components.  The cost is significantly reduced, down to $25.00 CDN plus postage, for that board.



3 Circuit Switched Fuseblock


This board provides three switched 12 volt fused circuits in a compact 5cm X 5cm package for powering accessories that you add to your bike.  The switching relay is provided on the card, which simplifies the installation.  These circuits can handle up to 30A current total (the limit on the switching relay's contacts) and has a LED for power indication.  The tested board is $21.00 CDN plus shipping.

The prices are very close to my costs just for the parts that are used.  I'm making no money on these, but making them available to support the community of K-bike owners.

4-Relay Neutral Detect: 

I have designed a printed circuit board to simplify the construction of the popular neutral detect circuit using four relays.  The board using through hole components which should be easy to source locally in a number of markets.  I was thinking of supplying this design in a flexible way, to meet different budgets and skill levels.
  • A completely assembled and tested circuit (first photo)
  • A kit consisting of the PCB and all parts ready to be assembled (second photo)
  • The raw PCB
The board overall is 5cm X 5.2cm in size. It will take input from the TGPI switch and output a Start Enable signal and an active-low Neutral signal whenever the transmission is in neutral position.



  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline aapodaca

  • Curious
  • Posts: 1
Hello rbm,

Do you still have any Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse blocks for sale? Sure sounds better than using 3 relays! 512-934-4984 // Tony, I have a 1992 K75 looking to put a simple speedometer/cluster in place of the stock part.

Offline thedutchrockstar

  • Curious
  • Posts: 9
  • 2 wheel madness
 bmp

If you have any more for sale I'd love to rid you of one,
I'm working on a caferacer build and the stock cluster is already heading towards the bin

Offline dougo

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 12
  • 1987 k75s
When I finally got my k75 built (did an engine swap) and added aftermarket handlebar extensions, my instrument cluster would not fit --or shall I say that the mounting bracket no longer fits the way it was intended to. I bought a gps speedo (has four idiot lights built in) unit and an aftermarket tach with a fuel guage--(not that I'm going to get inside the tank and repair the sender any time soon--I j ust do the math from the odometer..)

I modified the mount so that it works in a pinch, but the cluster bounces a bit and comes in contact with the faring when the bars are turned hard one way or the other. In reading all of this I have hope that I might be able to replace the stock instrument cluster with what I bought--but well, honestly, I have been afraid to do it because I was intimidated by the number of wires that come out of that thing, not knowing what to hook up and what to bypass in order to allow the bike to start and run like normal.

I have a manual with wiring diagrams etc, but even though I was able to put everything together and have the bike start and run on the first press of the button, I'm just too scared.

I would be interested in one of your boards mentioned above, but I think what I really need is instruction as to how to make the transition to the new instruments.

as far as the actual speedo goes, hooking up the gps unit is simple enough as it just requires power and a place to put it's antenna--but I want the idiot lights to work for neutral, choke, temp, and battery (I can see when the high beam is on so that indicator is not really necessary.) and I'm hoping your gear indicator/neutral sensor will take care of the rest of the electronics.

Can I pick your brain--or has it been picked already on this subject in another thread?
RIDE, Ride now! Ride!

Offline PiotrK100

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 125
  • What does not kill you makes you stronger
Hi. Thanks for the link. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

- we can not use stock gauges to connect gear display?
- should I buy the custom display first and let you know  or you have some on stock to choose one? Please be patient with me because I'm trying hard to understand all you write and EN is not my mother tongue :yes
- will you still do electronic if I want one? I have k100rs 1985. I want to but gear display bar mounted, maybe you have heard about such?
- please let me know how to procceed with all that stuff without making to many mistakes.

Thanks in advance
  • Poland
  • BMW K100RS 1985, K100 1983, Honda VF 1100 Sabre 1985

Offline rbm

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1939
Hi. Thanks for the link. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

- we can not use stock gauges to connect gear display?
No.  Most stock aftermarket gauges do not have a gear number display.  If they do have a gear number display built in (for example Motogadgets), then that display is not accessible for electronics outside the gauge itself.


- should I buy the custom display first and let you know  or you have some on stock to choose one? Please be patient with me because I'm trying hard to understand all you write and EN is not my mother tongue :yes
No, that would not be necessary.  If you tell me your needs, I will work with you to find a display that is the correct physical size, has enough brightness that can be seen in daylight and works with the display driver on my board design.

- will you still do electronic if I want one?
Yes, I will do all the electronics construction and testing before I ship it to you.

I have k100rs 1985. I want to but gear display bar mounted, maybe you have heard about such?
Yes.  See this link.


- please let me know how to procceed with all that stuff without making to many mistakes.

Thanks in advance
When you're ready just send me a PM.  We'll talk about your needs.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline thedutchrockstar

  • Curious
  • Posts: 9
  • 2 wheel madness
Could this board be adapted to out out 6 different signals?
My aftermarket speedo/tach has a gear indicator build in which works on the basis of 6 cables, each gear one signal.
Or will this require a completly different board?

Offline rbm

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1939
Could this board be adapted to out out 6 different signals?
My aftermarket speedo/tach has a gear indicator build in which works on the basis of 6 cables, each gear one signal.
Or will this require a completly different board?
No, this design will not work with your Koso instrument configuration.  The decoder chip I use, CD4511, converts BCD to a 7-segment driver.  You're looking for a design based around a CD4028, BCD to decimal decoder.  Such a design exists, called Breadbox, but the boards are NLA as far as I can determine.  There is a discussion on Flyingbrick about this Breadbox.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline wmax351

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1218
Could this board be adapted to out out 6 different signals?
My aftermarket speedo/tach has a gear indicator build in which works on the basis of 6 cables, each gear one signal.
Or will this require a completly different board?
No, this design will not work with your Koso instrument configuration.  The decoder chip I use, CD4511, converts BCD to a 7-segment driver.  You're looking for a design based around a CD4028, BCD to decimal decoder.  Such a design exists, called Breadbox, but the boards are NLA as far as I can determine.  There is a discussion on Flyingbrick about this Breadbox.


You could make one on perfboard and pot it in epoxy.
  • Ann Arbor, MI
  • 1991 BMW K75 Standard, Refreshed '94 engine
Bikes:
Current:
1991 BMW K75 Standard, Refreshed '94 engine


Past:
'83 BMW R65LS (An R65 with a prototype K Bike Front End)
'75 Honda CB550F
'69 Honda CB175
1999 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 (Last month of the original '55 model)
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V (5 speed, Right Shift, Disc Brake)
1971 BMW R75/5 in Toaster outfit
1979 Harley Davidson XLS-1000 Sportster Roadster

Offline rbm

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1939
You could make one on perfboard and pot it in epoxy.
+1. That's what I would do.  The original designer of the Breadbox used SMD everywhere to get a small footprint on the circuit card.  He had to use a fabrication house to assemble the boards.  He had small issues with the Start Enable circuit as a result of the SMD choice (the parts couldn't dissipate the heat).  Using equivalent through hole parts on a protoboard would be easier to build at the cost of a slightly larger board.

I also believe Charlie99 on K100-forum is prototyping a 74HC42 based design.  The 7442 is a TTL version of the 4028 CMOS.  IMO, I think a 4028 based design is more robust (able to withstand greater swings in Vdd) and adaptable to a larger range of aftermarket instruments.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline thedutchrockstar

  • Curious
  • Posts: 9
  • 2 wheel madness
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 10:25:02 PM »
My German is unfortunately not what it used to be...
But as I understand it in order for it to work I have to do the following:

take the three wires coming from the gearbox and hook them up to ports a b and c of the CD4028 each through a 100k resistor
At the hand of a datasheet I can then determine which pin is transmitting an output when certain combinations of inputs are made, leaving me with 6 respective outputs (N 1 2 3 4 5). The outputs that do not give the signals I want I will simply leave blank.
Seeing as my speedometer doesn't have a separate input for the neutral light I should simply pull wires from these outputs to the speedometer and it should indicate my gears?
This seems overly simple in my mind so I'm undoubtedly missing something...

Offline wmax351

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1218
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 12:31:47 AM »
That is correct. Gotta check the outputs though, not sure what the setup with N is.

It's a pretty simple setup, so don't worry.
  • Ann Arbor, MI
  • 1991 BMW K75 Standard, Refreshed '94 engine
Bikes:
Current:
1991 BMW K75 Standard, Refreshed '94 engine


Past:
'83 BMW R65LS (An R65 with a prototype K Bike Front End)
'75 Honda CB550F
'69 Honda CB175
1999 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 (Last month of the original '55 model)
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V (5 speed, Right Shift, Disc Brake)
1971 BMW R75/5 in Toaster outfit
1979 Harley Davidson XLS-1000 Sportster Roadster

Offline JonoK75

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 12
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2014, 07:16:50 AM »
Hi RBM,

I'm in the process of deciding what after market speedo/tachometer to purchase.

I was thinking Acewell but am open to other options, can you please let me know if there is a particular aftermarket speedo/tachometer you would recommend that is best suited for this unit?

I have K75 RT  with ABS will there be any issues or do I need to change the speed sensor to accomadate?

Really appriate your assistance! The knowledge on this forum is awesome!!

Jono

Offline PiotrK100

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 125
  • What does not kill you makes you stronger
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2015, 02:16:39 PM »
Hi
Now I do start to work on my new speedo and browsing all possibilities. My friends who ride motorcycles as well are telling me that gear indicator is not neccessary but i got use to it and changing speedo must have a separate indicator. Therefore pls let me know how much will be delivery to Poland and of course if you have board on stock.
  • Poland
  • BMW K100RS 1985, K100 1983, Honda VF 1100 Sabre 1985

Offline RODAVA70

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 11:46:42 PM »
HI I READ YOUR POST AND I REALLY WANT TO BUY ONE OF YOUR BOARDS.

I GOT A 1985 BMW K100 AND I REPLACE THE SPEEDOMETER WITH A KOSO TYPE OF SPEEDOMETER FROM EBAY.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Backlight-LCD-Digital-Motorcycle-Speedometer-Odometer-Motor-Bike-Tachometer-/271680631754?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f416d73ca

EVERYTHING IS WORKING FINE , EXCEPT (AS I READ ON YOUR POST) THE IGNITION DOESN'T TURN ON AND THE GEARS DONT SHOW.

WOULD THE CIRCUIT BOARD THAT YOU MADE WORK WITH THIS SPEEDOMETER?

IF YES HOW MUCH DOES IT COST AND HOW DO I PAY YOU? PAYPAL ETC. LET ME KNOW ASAP PLEASE AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR

POST THANK YOU

Offline rbm

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1939
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2015, 10:01:14 PM »
Rodava,

My gear indicator / start enable board will be allow you to start your bike in neutral, that feature you lost when you removed the original speedometer.  However, the gear display will be a 7-segment LED separate from your current Koso speedometer.  My board will not interface with the built in gear indicator on your speedometer.  To accomplish that, you'll have several choices:
1) build a neutral detect / gear indicator board yourself based on the CD4028 CMOS chip.
2) Contact Marukitano over on the Flyingbrick forum to get in with his Brotbox v2 build.  He's assembling a list of buyers right now for delivery of his box in the April timeframe ( http://www.flyingbrick.de/board/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=24590&pageNo=1&s=b54e47b6ddacd3c6e76b673ff64ab91e33931b49 )
3) Wait for my new gear indicator board that I'm currently designing.  It will be able to interface to the Koso speedometer.  I don't have a delivery timeline at the moment except to say it must be completed before the summer.

In the meantime, pull in your clutch to start your bike.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline RODAVA70

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2015, 11:51:50 PM »
RBM

THANK YOU, THANK YOU. FROM WHAT I READ BEFORE I RATHER WAIT FOR YOURS TO BE READY.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU ARE THE LEADER IN THIS TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY AND I DONT KNOW CRAP ABOUT IT.

I WILL WAIT JUST PLEASE KEEP ME ON YOU LIST.

IN ALHAMBRA, CALIFORNIA THAT IS NEXT TO PASADENA CALIFORNIA.

WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO SHIP HERE?

JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN READY AND ILL PAY RIGHT AWAY.

THANKS

I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED?

Offline bocutter Ed

  • ^ SuperNatural Motobricker
  • Posts: 650
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2015, 10:37:57 AM »
He's located a few kilometers up the road from me.  :curvy-road
  • Toronto, Canada
  • '61 Puch DS60 - '66 Puch 250 SGS - '87 BMW K75s

Offline RODAVA70

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2015, 12:59:47 PM »
THANK YOU BOCUTTER ED.

BUT WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?

CITY STATE OR COUNTRY?

Offline bocutter Ed

  • ^ SuperNatural Motobricker
  • Posts: 650
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2015, 01:34:42 PM »
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Can you not see it above the avatar on the left <<<?
  • Toronto, Canada
  • '61 Puch DS60 - '66 Puch 250 SGS - '87 BMW K75s

Offline RODAVA70

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2015, 08:20:05 PM »
LOL SORRY MAN I GOT IT THANKS LOL

Offline bocutter Ed

  • ^ SuperNatural Motobricker
  • Posts: 650
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2015, 11:09:12 PM »
He's located a few kilometers up the road from me.  :curvy-road
Guess I was being a little too cryptic.  :dunno

BTW, you should turn off your Caps Lock.
  • Toronto, Canada
  • '61 Puch DS60 - '66 Puch 250 SGS - '87 BMW K75s

Offline RODAVA70

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2015, 12:35:05 AM »
RBM DO YOU HAVE OF THE FIRST COMPLETE CHIPS THAT YOU MADE?

I WOULDNT MIND BUYING ONE OF THOSE ASAP AND WHENEVER YOU HAVE THE NEW ONE READY ILL BUY A NEW ONE?

IF YOU DONT IS OK ILL WAIT.

THANKS

Offline RODAVA70

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2015, 10:24:19 PM »
RBM DO YOU HAVE OF THE FIRST COMPLETE CHIPS THAT YOU MADE?

I WOULDNT MIND BUYING ONE OF THOSE ASAP AND WHENEVER YOU HAVE THE NEW ONE READY ILL BUY A NEW ONE?

IF YOU DONT IS OK ILL WAIT.

THANKS

Offline alpineguru

  • Curious
  • Posts: 6
Re: Aftermarket Gear indicator/Neutral indicator board & 3-circuit Fuse block
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2015, 02:41:35 AM »
Hi RBM,
I am currently swapping my k75 speedo with an acewell speedo and read that you have made some aftermarket parts that would solve the gear indicator issue and the neutral light/start issue.
How much for those components and wold you be able to send them to Australia as I would be very interested.
Plus would there be any chance you could send the schematics for me to install them to the acewell swell.
I am happy to make my own housing for the gear indicator screen.
Cheers

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