Author Topic: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.  (Read 9048 times)

Online Martin

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Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« on: July 06, 2017, 04:41:53 AM »

Just received the two OEM copies of the BMW fuel pump $36.00 Au each free freight. One is for a mate, the other one I will fit to my Brick. The original is now 25 years old and is going fine, the original screen was replaced due to a tear, the damper was replaced at the same time about 15 years ago. The original damper was fine and has been put into stock as a spare. The pumps came with a packet containing new crimp connectors, and rubber boots for the connectors. Both pumps outwardly look well made but without dissecting them only time will tell, I'll take pictures of both when I pull the old pump. I ran both pumps very briefly to test and seem to be reasonably quiet and run smoothly, I'll try to do a comparative noise test. Possibly tomorrow if I can borrow a graduated vessel I will do a flow test on the OEM and the Chinese pump. Once I've done the flow test I will fit it and see what happens.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 05:26:35 PM »
I read on another forum that the Chinese copy is reported to have a high failure rate -- just sayin'...



1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 190k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 08:38:51 PM »

I couldn't find anything negative, and I am also hoping that by buying of a manufacturer they might be better quality. If you can tell me where to find the feedback it would be good. It's pouring rain today so I might not get around to doing the testing. I was going to borrow a graduated container from a mate, but he has not found where he has stashed it.  :dunno I am willing to do the research on alterative parts supply, we pay through the nose in OZ. I have had good results from the rear master cylinder, a GPS ( apart from a failed power supply ). I am also working on starter brushes and bearing replacement and spline replacement.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 12:13:24 AM »

I got impatient and although I didn't have graduated container as accurate as the one I was going to borrow, I had one that would do the job. First thing is my OEM is the original, as fitted to the bike in 1992 and has done 160,000 K's. Whether this has major or minor impact on the comparison I haven't any idea.  The new pump is not an exact  copy, so has not been manufactured on old Bosch machinery. However the differences are extremely minor and do not impact fitting. A side by side noise comparison reveals the new one is a lot quieter, but compared to others, I have always thought of my pump as quiet. I did a flow test with my graduated container which while not 100% accurate I reckon it would be pretty close say 98%. I timed old and new pumps over a 5 sec period three times and came up with virtually the same readings.
OEM pump 180 ml over 5 sec equals 2.16 litres per min.
New pump  325 ml over 5 sec equals 3.9   litres per min.


The new pump is fitted to my brick and I will keep the OEM pump in the tail just in case. I am waiting for a mate to return my pressure gauge and will do a pressure test on the new pump. I have previous readings on the OEM pump and I will post both readings together. As per Motohobo  I've looked for negative and positive comments on Chinese pumps and there are some for and some against, but I could not find any comments about this particular pump. The only comments I could find were on Ali Express and I don't think they would post negative comments. By the same token I have found both positive and negative comments on top brand pumps and other parts. There are also heaps of Chinese copies around and I don't know whether they are all the same or not.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Laitch

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 07:42:07 AM »
OEM pump 180 ml over 5 sec equals 2.16 litres per min.
New pump  325 ml over 5 sec equals 3.9   litres per min.
I can visualize you in your white lab coat and pith helmet, Martin.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 77,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 11:49:00 AM »
There was a thread about fuel pumps on flyingbrick.de and a couple people mentioned their $35 eBay Asian pumps were duds that failed pretty quickly. One guy said he had an aftermarket one from the Czech republic that still going after 20K km, I think that's the one this guy Till sells. He has the original Bosch pump for 170 EU and an aftermarket one for 40 EU which is probably the one from the Czechs, both 55mm, and Till says he uses the cheaper one on his own bike and has fire-tested it on the bench pushing fuel through 20 injectors simultaneously. The negative comments were mostly about the ones sourced from eBay.

Here's the thread -- you can try Google translate on it but...well, machine translation still has a long way to go so it might not be too helpful, especially since it ain't exactly 'good German' the gearheads are talkin' there.

http://www.flyingbrick.de/index.php?thread/36845-benzinpumpe-die-dr%C3%B6lftausendste/




1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 190k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Christopherguzzi

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 02:44:12 PM »
Thank you for the detailed analysis and updates Martin. I too ordered two of these pumps from Alliexpress from a different vendor than you used for $25 each including shipping.  I didn't test the pumps to the detail that you did but I did check to make sure they worked when I receive them, which they did.  They look the same as the original pump, but time will tell whether or not they work as well in the long term.  But given the low price and fact that I didn't need them right away (took 10 days to arrive) I was willing to take the chance.
  • Little Canada, Minnesota
  • 1986 K75C
Christopherguzzi

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 05:21:09 PM »

About to start road testing, pressure testing will only show that my FPR is coping with the new pump. The honourable Minister has downloaded the OEM pump sound from a recording I made with my phone for comparison. However due to the fact that I did not record the new pump running, I will have to record the one that I bought for my mate. I will try to do that today. Motohobo for some reason I can't translate that site into English. It is probably not relevant as the pump is fitted, and I might as well proceed. Chris G, keep us updated on your pump it is probably better having two tests going. The only differences I could see was in the underside of the pump I will post pictures later so that you can compare your pump with mine. Laitch too hot for a lab coat even in winter, and I traded my pith helmet for an Akubra.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Christopherguzzi

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 10:14:09 PM »
I have no idea what a typical oem pump sounds like, but what I can attest to is the fact that the Chinese pump I purchased works like a champ upon install.  Sorry the comparison picture isn't a bit better, but to the naked eye, the pumps are identical.
  • Little Canada, Minnesota
  • 1986 K75C
Christopherguzzi

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 10:54:16 PM »

For the sake of the test the new pump was installed 34 K's short of 160,000 K's. As I expected pump runs at 35 PSI, controlled by the FPR. The OEM pump is on the right in both pictures. The differences are in the intakes on the bottom. The first sound recording is the OEM pump 30 sec
the second is the new pump 10 sec.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Christopherguzzi

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 11:12:29 PM »
For what it is worth, the bottom of my fuel pumps are each exactly the same (oem and cheap replacement), as seen in the photo on the right previously posted. I won't bother to post another pic as it is the same.
  • Little Canada, Minnesota
  • 1986 K75C
Christopherguzzi

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 11:18:49 PM »

So there at least two different copies out there, more than likely more. Mine was obtained through AliExpress from Global Autoparts.
Chris It would be beneficial if you posted where you obtained yours.
Regards Martin.12V For BMW K+Ducati K75 K100 K1100 K1 83-97 Ducati 907 851 888 16121461576 16121460452 0580463999 52mm New Electric Fuel Pump(China (Mainland))
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline lysy40

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2017, 01:12:24 AM »
I use in my k100lt fuel pump from audi 100, pressure 3 bar 100l/h, cost 17$

  • Poland, Bytom
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Offline Laitch

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »
I think that's the one this guy Till sells. He has the original Bosch pump for 170 EU and an aftermarket one for 40 EU which is probably the one from the Czechs, both 55mm, and Till says he uses the cheaper one on his own bike and has fire-tested it on the bench pushing fuel through 20 injectors simultaneously.
Here is Till's page for the K75. He has the 52mm and the 43mm pumps. Click on the K-bike tab for other bikes.
http://www.jt-c.com/product_info.php?info=p298_52-mm-fuel-pump-k75-k100-k1100-new.html
http://www.jt-c.com/product_info.php?info=p305_fuelpump-43mm-replacing-16141341231-incl--filter-replacing-16141341233.html
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 77,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 04:46:28 PM »

Thanks Laitch works out to approximately $81.00 Au which is not bad. I wonder where it is manufactured? Tried Googling it didn't come up with anything.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Christopherguzzi

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  • It ran when it was parked........27 years ago😳.
Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2017, 05:09:03 PM »
I too ordered mine from AliExpress.  A vendor named PABOKAYAUTOPARTSFLAGSHIP Store

https://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/16121461576-16121460452-0580-463-999-0580463999-52mm-motorcycle-fuel-pump-for-BMW-K75-K100-K1100-K1/32749689991.html

From the obsessively compulsive searching I did, Aliexpress seems to be the cheapest option by far, albeit with the trade off of taking appx. 10 days to ship.  I paid $25 U.S. including shipping.

]52mm motorcycle fuel pump for BMW K75 K100 K1100 K1 1983-1997 16121461576 16121460452 0580 463 999 0580463999
]52mm motorcycle fuel pump for BMW K75 K100 K1100 K1 1983-1997 16121461576 16121460452 0580 463 999 0580463999
  • Little Canada, Minnesota
  • 1986 K75C
Christopherguzzi

Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2017, 06:11:27 AM »
Thanks Laitch works out to approximately $81.00 Au which is not bad. I wonder where it is manufactured? Tried Googling it didn't come up with anything.
Regards Martin.


The topic on flyingbrick.de references a manufacturer called VDO


http://www.usa.vdo.com/


That makes aftermarket pumps for a variety of vehicles, but it was unclear in the thread whether that's the make that Till sells. It was clear in the thread, though, that the German K-Bike folk differentiate between Euro-sourced aftermarket parts and 'cheap Chinese knock-offs', so it's safe to say that the one Till sells is not the Chinese one. It was also clear that two posters said the Chinese knockoff failed pretty much out of the box while the one from Till didn't get any such feedback.


BTW, Till is a sponsor of the flyingbrick.de site so he's not going to get slammed there -- but he's also probably the most respected K-Bike dude in Germany, so he's not going to jeapordize his reputation by selling garbage.




 
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 190k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2017, 06:40:27 AM »

A mates got three VDO's supplied by his son who is an auto electrician. I also gave him the other Chinese one I bought. His VDO's look nothing like the OEM and are 51mm. It is clear that there are more than one version of  the Chinese copies, Chrisguzzi's is a direct copy mine differs at the intake. I have my OEM stored in the tail just in case, but so far so good as the man who fell off a building on the twentieth floor,could be heard saying as he passed various floors.. I don't think it's safe to assume all Chinese goods are bad, and they are definitely improving. My first Chinese GPS lasted over 10 years and didn't fail, I didn't secure it properly and it made a bid for freedom.


And these days I think everybody has goods made in China, some good some bad. I remember when they said all Japanese cars were garbage, then the Korean, then the Russian ( OOOPS they are still crap except for the Lada Niva) . I looked at Chris's pump and it has a 12 month warranty, and while mine does not I'm not too concerned, I went for a manufacturer. At least we are testing two possible sources at the same time. I'm sure other inmates have used Chinese pumps, and it would be good if they would submit feedback good or bad, and where they got them.
Regards Martin willing to go boldly where no Bricker has gone before. :riding:
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2017, 10:43:22 PM »

This is why I went with this supplier
.Beijing Global Auto Parts is one of the leading trade companies in mainland China and a member of the Chinese Commercial Vehicle Parts Market Federation, specializing in commercial vehicle and diesel engine parts. We provide export services to many of our clients worldwide including the Middle East, Europe, Africa, and Southeast Asia. Meanwhile, we have established long-term relationships with over 20 leading diesel engine parts manufacturer in mainland China with effective quality insurance system, like Cummins, Caterpillar, Deutz, Perkins, Komatsu, Isuzu, Steyr and Kamaz.
 Our products include nozzles, elements, delivery valves, injectors, pistons, piston rings, cylinder blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts, camshafts, turbochargers, fuel injection pumps and feed pumps. At the same time, we have good relationship with automotive companies in mainland China and our supplier, including FAW, DFM, CNHTC (Steyr, Howo), Foton (Auman), Shanxi (SX, Steyr), Yuchai, Weichai and DCEC (Cummins). With their assistance, we can provide pure China-made automotive parts and components.

Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Christopherguzzi

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 10:06:41 AM »
This is why I went with this supplier
.Beijing Global Auto Parts is one of the leading trade companies in mainland China and a member of the Chinese Commercial Vehicle Parts Market Federation, specializing in commercial vehicle and diesel engine parts. We provide export services to many of our clients worldwide including the Middle East, Europe, Africa, and Southeast Asia. Meanwhile, we have established long-term relationships with over 20 leading diesel engine parts manufacturer in mainland China with effective quality insurance system, like Cummins, Caterpillar, Deutz, Perkins, Komatsu, Isuzu, Steyr and Kamaz.
 Our products include nozzles, elements, delivery valves, injectors, pistons, piston rings, cylinder blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts, camshafts, turbochargers, fuel injection pumps and feed pumps. At the same time, we have good relationship with automotive companies in mainland China and our supplier, including FAW, DFM, CNHTC (Steyr, Howo), Foton (Auman), Shanxi (SX, Steyr), Yuchai, Weichai and DCEC (Cummins). With their assistance, we can provide pure China-made automotive parts and components.

Regards Martin.


I selected the supplier I did, Pabokay Auto Parts, because the are "Professional Parts People". :hehehe
  • Little Canada, Minnesota
  • 1986 K75C
Christopherguzzi

Offline BrickMW

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2017, 10:45:33 AM »

I selected the supplier I did, Pabokay Auto Parts, because the are "Professional Parts People". :hehehe


Looking at that business card, I'm guessing that must be where O'Reilly Auto Parts gets their house brand alternative parts... I went through 3 TPS sensors for my truck recently before buying one that worked correctly from Advanced... Parts looked identical to OEM, just wouldn't function correctly nor consistently after a few weeks of use.


Hopefully your pump fairs better!! :2thumbup:
  • Huntsville, AL
  • 1986 K75c
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Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2017, 05:33:15 AM »

Chris you can be assured your Chinese pump will never fail by always carrying a spare pump. Nothing you carry as a spare for will fail, it's always something that you are not carrying that fails. Murphies Law no 221.  :hehehe
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline bocutter Ed

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2017, 09:06:08 AM »
That could be a lot of spares to carry ... so the moto-trailer will fail.
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Online Martin

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Re: Fuel Pump Alternative OEM Copy.
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2019, 08:50:38 PM »
Pump update, now over 2 years on the pump and it's still ticking away faultlessly, so I decided to order another one for spares as a backup. This time a little bit cheaper from the same place as last time $28.73 Au previously $36.00 Au. I'll remove my OEM from the tail and replace it with the new one. I've been told that the seals in pumps that have been used and then put into storage can fail. I did clean and lube with PTFE and seal it before storing so I'll test it before putting it back into stock.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

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