Author Topic: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..  (Read 14444 times)

Offline Enfield

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Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« on: April 28, 2018, 04:06:19 PM »
Hi. I mounted this


And connected it to a Bep. 3.0 ....
Almost everything works - even gears and speedometer!
 But for some reason the tacho doesnt work. Would it be possible just to bypass the Bep and connect directly to ignition ... somehow🤨?
Or if someone have the same setup - working... then maybe the tachometer is faulty
 Regards
Chr



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Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2018, 04:22:36 PM »
Bep. 3.0....
Bike in question is a K100 1984


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Offline Laitch

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2018, 04:49:04 PM »
And connected it to a Bep. 3.0 ....
Almost everything works - even gears and speedometer!
But for some reason the tacho doesnt work.
The reason it doesn't work—according to the extract below from Euro MotoElectrics—is that the BEP 3.0 designer didn't design something to get it to work. There are alternatives. He explains some of them and you'll find information on this site about them.

Two Limitations of Functionality exist:
  • If your fuel tank is not equipped with a float then the level sensor of your speedo will not function either. In this case, only a fuel gauge (being triggered at fuel level of 4L, as in the original) can be used instead.
  • The BEP3.0 does not provide an engine speed signal. Motogadget is selling an ignition signal pick-up for the ignition cable at a price of €30 (which I use myself - works just perfectly). Other manufacturers pick off the high-voltage-signal capacitively or make use of the 12-volt-control signal of the ignition coil (not high-voltage side).I have carried out tests for extended periods and unfortunately have found no way to filter the engine speed signal in such a way, that it is compatible with any speedo type. That’s why I decided not to use a speed output.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
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I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
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Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2018, 05:02:00 PM »
The reason it doesn't work—according to the extract below from Euro MotoElectrics—is that the BEP 3.0 designer didn't design something to get it to work. There are alternatives. He explains some of them and you'll find information on this site about them.

Two Limitations of Functionality exist:
  • If your fuel tank is not equipped with a float then the level sensor of your speedo will not function either. In this case, only a fuel gauge (being triggered at fuel level of 4L, as in the original) can be used instead.
  • The BEP3.0 does not provide an engine speed signal. Motogadget is selling an ignition signal pick-up for the ignition cable at a price of €30 (which I use myself - works just perfectly). Other manufacturers pick off the high-voltage-signal capacitively or make use of the 12-volt-control signal of the ignition coil (not high-voltage side).I have carried out tests for extended periods and unfortunately have found no way to filter the engine speed signal in such a way, that it is compatible with any speedo type. That’s why I decided not to use a speed output.
[emoji1303]
That explains... Will get the ignition signal pickup. Thanks for helping me one more time.
Chr


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Offline rbm

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2018, 06:58:36 PM »
Before you go out and buy the Motogadget device, read this:  http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,10224.0.html

You might be able to get a RPM reading by connecting the coil #1 primary (Black / Blue Pin 16) to the following circuit:


The capacitor can be around 0.1uF to 0.33uF 250V and the resistor about 2,200 Ohms.  The coil primary input goes to the capacitor on the left, the tachometer input connects to where the resistor and capacitor join up on the right and the other end of the resistor is connected to ground.  This will level shift the input negative enough to maybe get a reading on the tachometer.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 03:00:00 AM »
Before you go out and buy the Motogadget device, read this:  http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,10224.0.html

You might be able to get a RPM reading by connecting the coil #1 primary (Black / Blue Pin 16) to the following circuit:


The capacitor can be around 0.1uF to 0.33uF 250V and the resistor about 2,200 Ohms.  The coil primary input goes to the capacitor on the left, the tachometer input connects to where the resistor and capacitor join up on the right and the other end of the resistor is connected to ground.  This will level shift the input negative enough to maybe get a reading on the tachometer.

Thanks Rbm
Read everything - do I understand correct that you are saying that the cheap EBay speedo might not work with the Motogadget device? And what you are suggesting is a simplified solution go get it to work, instead of the solution you link to?
 I Can build houses, do some work on a Valjoux 7753, and most of the stuff on my K....but untill now I have a blockage about Electronics [emoji56] But the “easy” solution might be my first try.
Regards
Chr


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Offline Laitch

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 04:44:01 AM »
I Can build houses, do some work on a Valjoux 7753 . . .
We don't care about that, Enfield, even if we believed you. We're all wearing Casios and Timexes and live happily in prefabricated yurts. :giggles

What's compelling about rbm's response to your post is that he appears to have worked out a viable solution for exactly the same—and what he refers to as annoying—Chinese gauge that won't fully function for you. Three questions occur to me.
Does he have one to sell you?
If he has one to sell, why wouldn't you buy it?
Does it need a cooler name like The rBMWavemaster2.2.1?
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 80,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 04:55:31 AM »
We don't care about that, Enfield, even if we believed you. We're all wearing Casios and Timexes and live happily in prefabricated yurts. :giggles

What's compelling about rbm's response to your post is that he appears to have worked out a viable solution for exactly the same—and what he refers to as annoying—Chinese gauge that won't fully function for you. Three questions occur to me.
Does he have one to sell you?
If he has one to sell, why wouldn't you buy it?
Does it need a cooler name like The rBMWavemaster2.2.1?

Hey - it passed me entirely - I would buy it right away. Sorry but I sometimes miss some underlying things as English it not my first language....
I went for the Bep as it looked Like plug and play, and was available next door ( Germany)
 Regards
Chr


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Offline Laitch

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 05:01:42 AM »
.
I went for the Bep as it looked Like plug and play, and was available next door ( Germany)
The BEP is a good product by all accounts; it just doesn't have that tachometer function to fit all the different types of gauges available. If it did, the cost probably would not be as attractive and sales wouldn't sustain production. rbm's board is a solution for the tachometer signal function.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 80,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline rbm

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 05:09:24 AM »
So I  re-read the BEP 3.0 user guide (which I had downloaded a while back) and it indicates that there is an output for engine rotational speed. On page 7 in the manual I have it states: "- RPM and SPD is output as a square wave signal, which means that the rotary pulses from  the crankshaft or the rear wheel respectively, are changed in a changing frequency of low and high Pulses."

 On the BEP 3.0's WEGO connector, it's PIN 24 and designated RPM.  If you hook up the circuit with the capacitor and resistor which I posted, you should be able to get the tachometer in your gauge to work.  Refer to my article about stabilizing the tacho signal, the link to which I posted above, to understand the range of values of components you can choose for this circuit.  This is an easy circuit to build.  Use a perfboard upon which to mount the components and I'd suggest using a terminal block like the one used by Maru.  You can order electronic parts online from RS Components if there is nothing local to you.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 05:17:12 AM »
So I  re-read the BEP 3.0 user guide (which I had downloaded a while back) and it indicates that there is an output for engine rotational speed. On page 7 in the manual I have it states: "- RPM and SPD is output as a square wave signal, which means that the rotary pulses from  the crankshaft or the rear wheel respectively, are changed in a changing frequency of low and high Pulses."

 On the BEP 3.0's WEGO connector, it's PIN 24 and designated RPM.  If you hook up the circuit with the capacitor and resistor which I posted, you should be able to get the tachometer in your gauge to work.  Refer to my article about stabilizing the tacho signal, the link to which I posted above, to understand the range of values of components you can choose for this circuit.  This is an easy circuit to build.  Use a perfboard upon which to mount the components and I'd suggest using a terminal block like the one used by Maru.  You can order electronic parts online from RS Components if there is nothing local to you.

Thank you so much [emoji1303]
Regards
Chr


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Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 05:20:04 AM »
Here's some supplemental education, Enfield. I'm enrolling myself in the course right now. :giggles
Dont know if its a thank you or.....[emoji848]
But hey.... can’t all be Timex as you knew it was a watch I was refering to[emoji6]


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Offline rbm

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 05:30:33 AM »
Rather than point you to other areas on the Internet for information, I'll post it here.  You have to add a small film or ceramic capacitor of 0.1uF 25V in series with the RPM (pin 24) output, followed by a 2,200 Ohm 1/4W 5% resistor in parallel with the output.  These two components together will generate the needed negative voltage and will result in a working tachometer. The values of these two components is not critical.  The capacitor can be between 0.033uF and 0.22uF and the resistor can be between 1,000 Ohms and 3,300 Ohms, but the values I recommend optimal. I built this one pictured below for someone with this same problem of non-responsive tacho.

  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline Laitch

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 05:32:54 AM »
. . . as you knew it was a watch I was refering to
Google knew it was a watch, and I know Google.  :yes

Good luck with your circuitry!
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 80,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2018, 05:33:22 AM »
Rather than point you to other areas on the Internet for information, I'll post it here.  You have to add a small film or ceramic capacitor of 0.1uF 25V in series with the RPM (pin 24) output, followed by a 2,200 Ohm 1/4W 5% resistor in parallel with the output.  These two components together will generate the needed negative voltage and will result in a working tachometer. The values of these two components is not critical.  The capacitor can be between 0.033uF and 0.22uF and the resistor can be between 1,000 Ohms and 3,300 Ohms, but the values I recommend optimal. I built this one pictured below for someone with this same problem of non-responsive tacho.


Thank you [emoji1303]
Have a store almost next door where I Can show Them what I need! If you were in the EU I would much rather order it from you - if you do take orders!
Regards
Chr


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Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2018, 01:34:44 PM »
@rbm
You are a genius - it works perfectly!! Thank you.
 As it is my very first try in soldering I guess I Can get away with “ whatever works”[emoji56]


 Regards
Chr


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Offline lilau3

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 04:20:34 AM »
This probably doesn’t help you much but for wider reference the 84euro Tumbleton and Twist unit seems to work fine with the BEP3 (connected directly to the RPM pin out).

I haven’t tested the speedo yet but believe it should work with the BEP3 as long as it’s set to receive the signal in 5V mode.

https://m.louis.eu/artikel/t-t-multifunction-instrument/10034806




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Offline Enfield

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2018, 10:44:04 AM »
It is ok  - thanks.  But now everything works and parts to make my rpm work was around 3€ and half an hour.
Regards
Chr


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Offline AnarchyMotorcycles

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2019, 06:34:35 PM »
Hi @Enfield

I was hoping you may be able to show me a setup pic of your BEP 3.0 and the eBay speedometer. As far as I can tell I have wired everything up perfectly and I am not even getting the tach to light up never mind look into if any of the other functions are working. Any help/advice would be hugely appreciated.

All the best,  JD
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Offline epifibatyd

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2019, 05:58:37 PM »
Hi!
I have a problem with the same set as OP: the ‘cheap Chinese speedo’ and bep3.0. Most of the things seem to be working including tachometer if I understand the English names properly - the RPMs are working and values seem trustworthy. However the electronicall display of the speed (speedometer?) is workin but giving false values - that are roughly 2times too high.

I have the version of  Chinese gauge which came with the magnet sensor. I used on of 3 cables going to the magnet sensor to connect it to the SPD ouput in the BEP.

Anybody aware of this problem and have and idea for a workaround?

Regards,
Peter

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Offline rbm

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2019, 09:24:12 PM »
Program the gauge for 6 pulses per revolution and wheel circumference of 2000mm.  then test and play with the wheel circumference value until the road speed is correct.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline MantasBMWC4R

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2019, 05:14:17 AM »
Hi. I mounted this


And connected it to a Bep. 3.0 ....
Almost everything works - even gears and speedometer!
 But for some reason the tacho doesnt work. Would it be possible just to bypass the Bep and connect directly to ignition ... somehow🤨?
Or if someone have the same setup - working... then maybe the tachometer is faulty
 Regards
Chr

Have some questions, i had instaled same speedometer, brought BEP3.0, have such a problems, maybe you will help me:
Gears: everything is ok with N gear, but instead 1 gear i have 2 gear, and everything goes high. Have no first gear.
Speed: Do you connected wire to speedometer straight from BEP SPD port? Is it works well.
RPM: made sceme capasitor and resistor (capasitor 0.33uF 250V and the resistor 2,200 Ohms), where i need to connect wire from CDI (is it 16 port, Black / Blue Pin from old speedometer connections (connected to BEP)? or from anywhere?
Thank you.
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Offline JSCHU

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2019, 01:08:49 AM »
Hi, I’m new to the forum and a total noob when it comes to working on bikes. I’m hooking up the speedometer and have all functions working but I’m not getting the speed output and the rpm needle seems to lag/stick. I’m thinking it could partially be related to the speedometer menu settings which seem to be a little different for me than the videos I’m seeing online. For starters, I need to enter a password when I long press the button on the back at startup. I see “CCC - - -“. 123 seems to be the password anything else just boots me back to the “CCC - - -“ menu. 123 gets me to the settings but those are also different. The first setting starts with “y” and goes from 1-2-4-6-8. I’m wondering if this is cylinder count? This is also an issue for me since I am running this on a k75. No option for 3 cylinders. I’m also not seeing anywhere to set my tire size. I’ve attached some pictures just in case any of you can shed some light on the matter.

Another question I have is that I keep reading that the BEP 3.0 can output either 5V or 12V. Is there a switch to flip somewhere for this? Could a potential problem be that I’m not pushing enough juice to the speedometer?
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Offline JSCHU

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2019, 01:17:41 PM »
After a few hours of searching, I found this document. Figured I’d share it just in case anyone else is dealing with the same issue.

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/g25vpdkat2az40j/speedometerInstructions.pdf?dl=0
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Offline Rastrai

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Re: Bro 3.0 with cheap EBay speedo..
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2019, 01:00:55 AM »
Nice doing the Same thing!
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  • 96 k1100

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