OEM Oil level sight glass scalpage

[Motorhobo]

Mean price from US dealers is +$35.

https://www.tills.de/oil-level-check.html has them for 25EU but shipping makes that untenable unless you're buying lots of other stuff.

Has anyone discovered an aftermarket option? I searched the site but no cigar.

BTW I see EME has them for $30 plus shipping which comes to $+35, so not much better than picking one up in person at the dealer.

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/oillevel906.htm?CartID=1

I guess I still live in the bygone universe where they were $15. So just wondering if anyone has considered an alternative.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Not recently, but I have seen them sold as (refrigeration) compressor oil level sight glasses.   Try Grainger or a refrigeration supply house.

Does anyone know what the diameter of the hole it goes into?

[Motorhobo]

This is interesting...

https://www.kippusa.com/us/en/Products/Additional-Products/Level-indicators-screw-plugs/K0446-Oil-level-sight-glasses-press-in.html

Here's the data sheet:

https://www.kippusa.com/xs_db/DOKUMENT_DB/www/KIPP_US/BEDIENTEILE/DataSheet/enUS/K04/K0446_Datasheet_19750_Oil_level_sight_glasses_press-in--enUS.pdf

Anyone have an OEM sight glass lying around to check the specs? Imagine...a new sight glass from a US supplier with pickup at a local distribution center for under $4.00. Talk about living the dream...

There's supposed to be a Kipp distributor about 30 miles from here. I'm going to give them a call and see if it's for real.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

At first glance, it looks like that particular sight glass won't work.  It looks like it is only restrained by the friction of the o-ring sealing it.  That would make it vulnerable to being pushed out by crankcase pressure.  The BMW gauge is retained in position by a ring. 

Also, the glass you listed has a flange where the OEM version does not so it can be inserted completely and held by a ring.

I think I need to go out in the garage and see if I can get a measurement on the diameter of the glass on my bikes.  Then I can do a serious search for a substitute.  These things aren't scarce, you can find them on almost any piece of machinery that has an oil sump.  It's just a matter of finding the right size and configuration.

[Laitch]

This is interesting...https://www.kippusa.com/us/en/Products/Additional-Products/Level-indicators-screw-plugs/K0446-Oil-level-sight-glasses-press-in.html

Not resistant to frost. That rules out my neighborhood. How it manifests that weakness might be interesting to know.

[rbm]

"Not resistant to alcohol".  That's the worst.  Seems like you'd not be able to store those beers in the garage fridge because, who knows, these alcoholic sight glasses might consume them. 

[Laitch]

"Not resistant to alcohol".  That's the worst.these alcoholic sight glasses

Those must use the same lenses as beer goggles.  They can't be all bad.   

[Motorhobo]

I'm wondering if it would help to have an old OEM one for comparison. Not that I have one, but maybe if someone is planning on replacing it soon they could hang on to the trash.

Mine is in the meantime pretty much opaque. I don't want to change the oil because this engine is probably on its last 10k miles (+130k on it now) and I have another engine that had a top end job that I will swap in when this engine is done. So I just need a reliable read so I can top it off if necessary.

There is this old post from Duck...not sure what he's up to there because there are no pics.

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=3539.msg29219#msg29219

 Is the LED in question illuminating the thing from the inside? I'm wondering if I dropped a pinpoint LED in there on a line of 20 gauge wire if that would help. I have a bunch of them. Has anyone ever tried anything like that?

Yes, I'm being a cheapskate, but what's the point in putting any money into an engine at all that probably will be a paperweight in a few thousand miles?

[Motorhobo]

BTW I found lots and lots of other sight glasses out there on the web, but most of them were in the +$30 range if they were manufacturer- or application-specific.  So I suspect, even though you might find a match, it will not be as miraculous price-wise as that $4.00 option from Kipp. But who knows? It's worth a shot.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

The LED that Duck speaks of is Mounted so that it throws light on the sight glass from inside the engine fairing so you can see it.  The LED isn't inside the engine.

I have done something similar with my RS bikes.  I use a cheap LED license plate light that is attached to the engine on a chunk of aluminum that is held by one of the screws that holds the sump on the block. 

I spent an afternoon searching the interweb and found lots and lots of sight glasses.  The first problem is that I'm not sure if the one in our engines is 38 or 40mm in diameter.  The second is that we need a press in glass that looks to be about 5mm thick and is retained against pressure pushing it out by a ring in a groove. 

There are several 38mm and 40mm press in glasses available, and a couple of them are in the $5 price range, the problem is that they are all well over 5mm thick or have flanges the prevent the use of the retaining ring.  Crank case pressure probably isn't a big problem, but I would feel better knowing that the glass couldn't pop out.

There was one glass that looked like it would work.  It was a press in with a threaded expansion seal.  The downside was that it was fairly expensive and required a special tool to be locked in place, making it cost just about what the OEM glass does. 

It looks like the only option is EuroMotoElectrics who sells the sight glass for $31.

[Motorhobo]

Oh well, thanks for looking, Gryph. Worst case, I can dump the oil in a pan, measure it, and pour it back in. But after leaving it on the sidestand for a few hours I was able to discern what *might be* a line. I'm not burning oil and have no puddles on the garage floor, so that's good.

BTW I wasn't talking about *mounting* a pinpoint LED inside the case, but rather just dropping a pinpoint LED far enough down there to get around the corner shine a light on the glass from the inside. The problem with using a flashlight from the outside is that the glare from the light negates the benefit. The more light, the more glare and the less you see. I'm wondering if that might alleviated if the light came from inside the case.

Check out the cutaway here:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=11159.msg97086#msg97086

It looks like if you drop a 5mm LED like at this one:

https://www.ledsupply.com/leds/5mm-led-frosted-white-70-degree-viewing-angle

at the end of a wire down there slowly, it might illuminate the chamber enough so that some light could reach the inside of the glass.

A definite downside of this approach would be if the bike blew my head off. I can't see that happening though - those LEDs are cool to the touch and draw microamps, so I don't see any combustion happening. If I'm wrong, please tell me now while I still have a face. Or if there's some other good reason it would be a waste of time, let me know before I waste my time.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Sounds like I will have to try to get a photo of the LED on my RS bikes so you can see how Duck and I installed our LED's.  It really wasn't very hard; getting the power and routing the wire took 2/3 of the time I spent. 

I think your problem is that your rig makes it hard to see the glass, where on my RS's the belly pan blocks all the light and only allows viewing from a specific angle.  Since the viewing angle is limited, it's easy to mount the LED so it doesn't create a visible glare on the glass.  It makes checking oil level very easy(as long as I remember to turn on the key before I kneel down to look).

[Laitch]

I'm wondering if I dropped a pinpoint LED in there on a line of 20 gauge wire if that would help. I have a bunch of them. Has anyone ever tried anything like that?

Even if you cost out your time at the rate of a grocery bagger at the local IGA while you figured out a way of installing that light within the crankcase, the total cost would probably buy you two or three oem glasses. Even if you worked on it without compensation to quench your passion for innovation, it's likely that light emitting from any LED down there would be fogged into a dimness then darkness by a sediment of hot oil mist and unburned hydrocarbon detritus in a matter of minutes.

It's worth a try though. Let us know how it turns out.

[Motorhobo]

Laitch - I'm disappointed in you! You're usually so detail-oriented and persnickety about other people carefully reading your posts :-)

Again, I'm NOT talking about mounting anything anywhere. I'm talking about dropping a 5mm LED at the end of a 20 gauge wire into the case from the oil fill hole to see if illuminating the interior of the crankcase from the inside might make it easier to see the oil level through the sight glass. Then, when you've checked the level, you just pull the thing out again. The goal is to get the length right so that it illuminates the interior of the sight glass so it doesn't drop into the oil itself.

I guess my question is whether there is any inherent danger in putting any electrical current, no matter how minimal, down there. And, whether it would have any success in making the oil level visible from the outside. The problem is, as I said in the post below, that shining a light on the glass from the outside really doesn't do anything but increase the glare from the surface of the glass, making it even less transparent than without direct light.

BTW I wasn't talking about *mounting* a pinpoint LED inside the case, but rather just dropping a pinpoint LED far enough down there to get around the corner shine a light on the glass from the inside. The problem with using a flashlight from the outside is that the glare from the light negates the benefit. The more light, the more glare and the less you see. I'm wondering if that might alleviated if the light came from inside the case.

Check out the cutaway here:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=11159.msg97086#msg97086

It looks like if you drop a 5mm LED like at this one:

https://www.ledsupply.com/leds/5mm-led-frosted-white-70-degree-viewing-angle

at the end of a wire down there slowly, it might illuminate the chamber enough so that some light could reach the inside of the glass.

A definite downside of this approach would be if the bike blew my head off. I can't see that happening though - those LEDs are cool to the touch and draw microamps, so I don't see any combustion happening. If I'm wrong, please tell me now while I still have a face. Or if there's some other good reason it would be a waste of time, let me know before I waste my time.

[Laitch]

Laitch - I'm disappointed in you! You're usually so detail-oriented and persnickety about other people carefully reading your posts :-)

Fostering the disappointment of others is one of my pastimes.  I now understand you're developing a portable endolight. Clinical trials would seem to be in order. Start with 1.5v batteries and 1-gallon milk jugs half-filled with old crankcase juice. Work your way up to carboys. As always, work behind a riot shield.

[alabrew]

I would think just shining a bright flashlight (torch) into the oil fill hole would be sufficient to see the level.

[Motorhobo]

I would think just shining a bright flashlight (torch) into the oil fill hole would be sufficient to see the level.

You'd think, but those would have to be some magic photons to bend around this. Photons can't do it, but 20 gauge wire probably could.



Laitch, that's not a bad idea, I'll probably do that. I was just wondering whether anyone had tried anything similar and determined that it didn't work. God knows I don't need any more quixotic ventures on my Task List.

[Laitch]

I was just wondering whether anyone had tried anything similar and determined that it didn't work.

If it didn't work, they might not be able to tell you. Be considerate. When you start your experimentation, set up video at a distance where it will be recoverable, and tape a note on it for the finder to send it to the world famous Motobrick.com for membership edification.

[Motorhobo]

Thanks for the encouraging words, as always Laitch! 

[Laitch]

Thanks for the encouraging words, as always Laitch! 

Tut, tut. It's all part of the service. 

You have a few obstacles to overcome in this project, besides snipers. Where the oil filler hole is and where the sight glass is are not in alignment. LEDs are directional so maintaining the direction of the light array will need some precision and the bulb needs to broadcast with intensity. If the bulb breaks from the wire, it's likely the oil pan will need to be removed to retrieve it.

I've found decorative hot tub LEDs that are battery powered and waterproof so that would eliminate the spark factor, if they could fit through the filler hole.. If such a light is found, an eyelet might be epoxied to the light case so a wire or fishing line could dangle it in there. If all that is possible, alignment with the site glass, direction and brightness of the LED array would be the next challenges.

Strange as it might seem to some folks, the Brick engine is a precision tool so paying for the appropriate part to monitor its oil level convenienly and frequently might be a bitter pill that must be swallowed.

[Gabriel70]

This is interesting...

https://www.kippusa.com/us/en/Products/Additional-Products/Level-indicators-screw-plugs/K0446-Oil-level-sight-glasses-press-in.html

Here's the data sheet:

https://www.kippusa.com/xs_db/DOKUMENT_DB/www/KIPP_US/BEDIENTEILE/DataSheet/enUS/K04/K0446_Datasheet_19750_Oil_level_sight_glasses_press-in--enUS.pdf

Anyone have an OEM sight glass lying around to check the specs? Imagine...a new sight glass from a US supplier with pickup at a local distribution center for under $4.00. Talk about living the dream...

There's supposed to be a Kipp distributor about 30 miles from here. I'm going to give them a call and see if it's for real.

All this time and effort to save a few dollars....life is too short to sweat the small stuff!

[Motorhobo]

All this time and effort to save a few dollars....life is too short to sweat the small stuff!

Thanks for waxing philosophical about the ephemeral nature of life and and what constitutes worth the sweat, but I really don't give a flying f**k what you think . If you'd actually read the post before presenting your unhelpful $0.02, you'd have seen that this post is really about the working up to an engine swap and how to squeeze as much juice out of the old engine as possible before discarding it.

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, this whole site revolves around saving dollars. The point of this post is to explore the possibilities for how to check the oil level on an opaque sight glass on an almost-dead engine, not how much money time you enjoy wasting and how much money you enjoy throwing away. If you don't know the difference between 'a few' and 40, and how much time it takes to drain your oil, replace the glass and refill the oil, you should probably take your bike to the dealer. They'd love to see you :-)

[Motorhobo]

Tut, tut. It's all part of the service. 

You have a few obstacles to overcome in this project, besides snipers. Where the oil filler hole is and where the sight glass is are not in alignment. LEDs are directional so maintaining the direction of the light array will need some precision and the bulb needs to broadcast with intensity. If the bulb breaks from the wire, it's likely the oil pan will need to be removed to retrieve it.

I've found decorative hot tub LEDs that are battery powered and waterproof so that would eliminate the spark factor, if they could fit through the filler hole.. If such a light is found, an eyelet might be epoxied to the light case so a wire or fishing line could dangle it in there. If all that is possible, alignment with the site glass, direction and brightness of the LED array would be the next challenges.

Strange as it might seem to some folks, the Brick engine is a precision tool so paying for the appropriate part to monitor its oil level convenienly and frequently might be a bitter pill that must be swallowed.

Definitely, I agree with you on all that. There's no guarantee that any light that reaches the crankcase will reach the sight glass at all. If the oil is at the half-way mark, then there's not much space between the oil surface and where the sight glass resides. Maybe I'll give it a try with one of the 5mm pin lights I have...maybe not. And again, if it weren't for the fact that this engine is on it's way out I'd just pop in the glass on the next oil change, but -- like I said there will be no more oil changes on this baby. I'm just trying to coax a few thousand more miles out of it before I do the engine swap. An engine swap is a major pain in the ass. I want to put it off as long as possible.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Not sure if there is framework for the rig or an engine fairing blocking the view that is the source of your problem, but if the "glass" is cloudy, you might try putting a dab of rubbing compound or toothpaste on the tip of your finger and giving the lens a good rub.  A few minutes of rubbing might just clarify the plastic lens enough the make out the oil level. 

Unless there is oil leaking around the sight glass, I would be very reluctant to change it.

[daveson]

Another option, you can get access to it, to clean it, through the oil filter cover plate hole.