K1100 blinker issue

[matjas]

Hi Guys

this is almost past the winter and with the temps being 5C and up I am slowly starting to rehibernate my brick.
last year she developed an ugly habit of intermittent blinking.
you press the blinker button and you get a blink - sometimes one, sometimes, four, sometimes it will switch and blink normally until I cancel. this happens always when the bike is cold and when heated up after some 20kms all goes back to normal.

this was not like that from the beginning and only happened after I tore the whole bike apart /well almost/ before going into my trip all around Europe. I unplugged and contact sprayed every plug, did some insulating where the original insulation wrapper perished, etc. when I put the bike back together the first thing I noticed was this weird blinking...

now - what is really responsible for keeping the blinkers ON? could the blinker unit /bottom left in the relay box/ be out?
to me it is either this OR the cancelling signal is somehow cutting in without me touching the button.

The bike is apart again for major maintenance before the coming season and I would love to get rid of this nuisance. Any ideas what this could be?

Best regards!
matjas

[frankenduck]

One common cause of flasher relay gremlins is dirt building up inside of the starter motor. (Because part of the bike's grounding goes through the starter motor.) Cleaning/rebuilding the starter motor is the cure.

[matjas]

Hi Frankenduck, thanks for chiming in.

As I said - the only thing I did was a once over on all the plugs and connectors - blowing them with contact cleaner and compressed air. All of them were in very good condition. There was no problem before and there was problem after...
BUT
You actually might be onto something when I connect dots now:

I charged my battery about two weeks ago and it was 90% - I suppose this is a good battery as I never had a problem with it last season but when I wanted to start the bike the first time this season there was no way I could do it - just flat battery and no turn-over. Checked the lights, OK, checked the horn - loud and crisp as always. Still the starter was not able to turn the engine over.
I connected the battery charger just for 15 minutes and used it as a booster = BOF! and the bike started, idled nicely and I rode away - 20 kms later filled her up and started as if nothing has ever happened.

Maybe this is a good idea to take the starter out while I am at the general maintenance. Is this a big job??? Should I inspect the alternator while I am at the starter?

What should I look for in the starter, brushes? This has never given me a bit of trouble. So far :D

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I wonder if there may be a problem in the self cancelling signal that turns off the blinker after a certain distance.  I believe there is a pulse counter in the turn signal module that gets pulses from the speed sensor in the final drive.  Not sure where to look, but that is where the problem is probably coming from. 

Have you tried to swap out the turns signal module?  That would eliminate the pulse counter as the source of the problem. 

If that doesn't fix it, the problem may be a loose connection or bad wire that is making and breaking the connection adding pulses.  How does the speedometer work?  Is the needle steady?  That may indicate a loose connection. 

Another possibility is a fault in the turn signal cancel switch or the wires between it and the turn signal module.  A wire problem there may be turning off the turn signal.  Do the signals cancel when you turn the handlebars?

[frankenduck]

The "counter" electronics for self-cancelling turn signals are all in the instrument cluster. The turn signals cancel when the cluster grounds the BLU/GRN wire from the instrument cluster to Pin 12 of the flasher relay.

[matjas]

We may exclude the distance related stuff - the Speedo does work ok and the bike does the halfblinky thing even when stopped and engine off. Riding or stationary does no difference.
The only trail I have is the temperature - when the brick gets hot all comes back to normal.
This time of year the blinkers did not cure themselves - I am guessing this is too friggin cold. No fun turning with the button pressed but this is better than nothing.

Bought Guzzi v7 for good money - I am so enjoying its simplicity :) the brick is well - a complex contraption.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Test #1:  With the engine cold, warm up the instrument cluster with a hair dryer.  Keep the case warm to the touch for at least five minutes to make sure the internals are warmed up.

Then start the engine and see what the turn signals do.

Test #2:  Do the same test heating the internals of the relay box, specifically the turn signal module.

Test #3:  Repeat, heating the wires between the steering head and the relay box.  You will need to lift the tank a bit to do this.

[matjas]

that could be a good lead MG, thanks.

there is SOMETHING with this bike and the relays temperature related i know for sure - last year when in the French Alps I was caught in a line os slow moving traffic behind a cycling pelothone /mad respect to these guys!/ and we went to the summit in 1st gear in like 40-50 minutes.
you could see the poor guzzis, HDs and older Beemers just taking a nap on the side of the road from overheating as it was easily 30C and full sun.

the brick was oscillating nicely between fan ON/OFF suffocating myself with fumes of supposedly boiling fuel /seriously I thought there was a leak somewhere the smell was so pungent/ but it did just fine to the top but I am guessing everything on the bottom of the tank must have been on the verge of melting down.
when I switched the bike off for the first time this day I heard no fuel pump. tried crankig and no pump again. tried to switch things off and on again and upon switching the key on/off/on/off the pump came into life and did not bother me again - that is until the next overheating episode when I arrived at some hotel in the evening accompanied by the engine fan whizz.
went to the reception and when I wanted to move the bike to the parking lot there was no pump again. the key flick-trick did the job again and the bike worked like a charm for another 3.500kms. no problem whatsoever.
on one of the last drives last year /damp, miserable morning/ it did cut fuel on the way once - just a second of powerdown but I know there is SOMETHING going on.

I am planning on unplugging everything once again and investigating what could be the cause visually. Also the overheating with an hot-air-gun can be done to simulate the situation.
I am guessing the fuel pump relay needs to be replaced anyway. I will keep the old one in the box just in case.
The bliker unit hope it is ok as this part is not available second hand and new one costs effin arm and leg. MAYBE it will fit taken from my dormant now 1100GS - then second hand market can open up a bit.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

What you describe with your fuel pump sounds a lot like a dirty ignition switch.  Many of us have been down that road.  Have you ever cleaned your ignition switch?

Here's the link:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4909.msg30770#msg30770

[frankenduck]

What you describe with your fuel pump sounds a lot like a dirty ignition switch.  Many of us have been down that road.  Have you ever cleaned your ignition switch?

Here's the link:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4909.msg30770#msg30770

The subject bike is a K1100 so that link does not apply.

A common problem with K1100 ignition switches is that the wiring harness between the switch and the main harness fails.

K1100 ignition switch:
https://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/4vignsw.forklock/4vignsw.forklock.htm

[matjas]

hi. Nope - I have never had the ignition switch out. The linked article however does not state anything about cleaning the internals being seemsingly different to those in K100.
I am supposing I have done something to some plug, grounding, wire, pin, etc while cleaning everything. I returned on this bike upon purchase from Germany more than 1000km and ALL was working all right - except the old wavy tires.
I will have to redo all the electrical plugs etc and try the heat tests on the relay box. MAYBE there is a faulty solder somewhere.

[matjas]

an update:

took out das blinkerbox and shook it good :D and it works like magic.
then it started doing the 'thing' again so I hit it a couple of times on the frame and just left it out of the box and it works just fine.
when you hit any blinker it just does that for a minute or so until I cancel.

so this leaves me with the cold solder/unsoldered something theory. watdayathink?

can I open the box somehow? It seems to have been glued/sealed with some silicone down there. seems I need to have this cracked open. hints?

best regards
matjas

[frankenduck]

Yes, you can pry it out to inspect it.

Here's what it looks like:

[matjas]

do I need to cut the silicone out? it is sort of funny with the goo down there BUT the board itself is rattling inside but does not look like it could be taken out without a fight.

[rbm]

That silicone layer is about 1cm thick.  It comes out easily and getting access to the board after removing it is easy.

[matjas]

hi folks
happy to announce I cured the problem by resoldering EVERY electrical point on the board. dunno which one was the guilty one but I was guessing there could be a cold solder or a crack in solder.
FOR NOW in the garage it works like a champ. we will see how this is going to be on the road.
M