Post by: stellarkyle on July 02, 2017, 01:20:16 AM
I'm happy to say I finally got my bike! For those of you who didn't see my other post, I purchased a 1985 K100RS from a guy on Craigslist in Hawaii. I officially bought the bike at the beginning of May but it took until the end of June for it to make to me here in Georgia. I was eager and nervous to get her since I had bought it sight unseen. I had a local mechanic who is familiar with flying bricks look it over for me so I wasn't going into the deal completely blind, but it was nerve wracking nonetheless. She's in kinda rough cosmetic condition, but runs really well. There's some rust in places and the paint everywhere has seen better days. The turbo appears to be functioning as it should because it HAULS. The turbo kicks in right at 5k RPM in any gear and really flies. I'm planning to get it dyno'ed as soon as I'm done with regular maintenance to hopefully shed some light on the actual power of these turboed bikes.
Here's my new Hawaiian girlfriend!
(https://i.imgur.com/twBVxXh.jpg)
The bike has a Luftmeister (RB Racing) turbo kit on it as well as a couple other Luftmeister add-ons. For starters, Luftmeister widened the rear wheel. It looks like they cut it on either side of the snowflake, added spacers, then welded it back together. I don't currently have a close up picture of it but can provide one if anyone is interested. The bike also has a WP rear shock.
Here's my immediate to do list:
Change Engine Oil and Oil FilterChange Brake FluidChange CoolantChange Final Drive OilChange Transmission Fluid- Change Fork Fluid
Change Fuel FilterCheck Air FilterCheck Spark Plugs- Lube Splines
Replace Head Bearings/RacesRebuild Leaking Front Brake CaliperGet the bike running again...
My plan is to do all this maintenance over the next couple weeks and ride the bike through the end of the season then tear into it this winter. We'll see how the timing goes though since I'm still finishing my undergrad and will be in school this winter. I'm wanting to make some big changes to the bike and have some renderings if anyone is interested. My plan involves new fairings and keeping the 80's vibe.
I'm thrilled to officially be part of the motobrick community and am looking forward to sharing this project with all of you! I'll share the progress I've made so far as soon as I figure out how to insert pictures... I've tried multiple photo sizes in both Flickr and Photobucket but they still don't show up in the post preview...
Post by: Laitch on July 02, 2017, 01:27:53 AM
Post by: stellarkyle on July 02, 2017, 10:03:46 PM
Click the icon at the point of the red arrow to download from Photobucket or some other host. You paste the photo's URL in the box that appears.
Thanks for the help. Seems to be working now even though I did the same thing as before.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 02, 2017, 10:38:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/K5x6vYn.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/K5x6vYn)
(https://imgur.com/K5x6vYn)
The "grease" was like plastic.
(https://i.imgur.com/kxnPgmu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3HYzcSC.jpg)
The upper and lower bolts on the right side of triple tree both stripped when we took them off even though we used liquid wrench and heat... My replacement bolts will go on with anti-seize.
I've order All Balls 22-1024 bearings to replace the current ones. They won't arrive until next week so I decided to repaint the forks in the meantime.
(https://i.imgur.com/IoZ9GGa.jpg)
Peels right off.
(https://i.imgur.com/CxDEXPt.jpg)
The blue paint required paint stripper.
(https://i.imgur.com/0M3wW2M.jpg)
All cleaned up.
(https://i.imgur.com/SfEoOPD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/exJ7f00.jpg?1)
Primed with etching primer.
(https://i.imgur.com/EZL2pBE.jpg)
Painted with Rustoleum Satin Black. I don't know how long the paint on the forks will last but at least it's better than before. I really like the look of them bare metal so I may take it back to that at some point.
(https://i.imgur.com/4faYNdh.jpg)
Last but not least, the odometer wasn't working. Opening the instrument cluster confirmed my suspicions. The gears are completely disintegrated.
(https://i.imgur.com/E5zRFkT.jpg)
At this point, I think I'm going to run without an odometer for a little while. I was wanting to replace the cluster with a Motogadget or Acewell unit anyway so I'm just going to save the $85 on replacement gears and put it towards a new unit.
PO said the gasket ring on the fuel tank started leaking as he was riding it to the port to drop it off. He was nice enough to send me a check for the replacement which I just put on (Part #16 11 1 453 690)
Post by: stellarkyle on July 11, 2017, 02:51:58 PM
Post by: furnimoto on July 13, 2017, 01:54:48 AM
My plan is to do all this maintenance over the next couple weeks and ride the bike through the end of the season then tear into it this winter. We'll see how the timing goes though since I'm still finishing my undergrad and will be in school this winter. I'm wanting to make some big changes to the bike and have some renderings if anyone is interested. My plan involves new fairings and keeping the 80's vibe.
Congrats on the new bike, post your renderings!
Post by: stellarkyle on July 13, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
I used the kit to rebuild the caliper. Everything looks fine after bleeding the brakes and there's no sign of leakage!
Congrats on the new bike, post your renderings!
Thank you so much! Here's what I have so far:
(https://i.imgur.com/NuwcXby.jpg)
I'm a big fan of the endurance racers from the 80's so that was my biggest inspiration for this project. The two biggest things I wanted for this build were to have fairings of some kind and for it to look period. I've sourced some fairings that should work well from AirTech that shouldn't require too much modification. I'm currently thinking I'll use a tire fairing off of a S1000RR. In the spirit of an endurance racer, I'll put dual headlights up front. I'm thinking I'll go with 90mm units from HELLA or PIAA. I'd like to blackout the engine then strip and polish all parts of the turbo setup to make it really stand out. I've not totally settled on the paint scheme. I like the white base with the M Motorsport stripes. I'm trying to find a way to make it look like a race bike without sticking a number and decals on it.
I'd love to get feedback on what I have so far! I'm sure there's plenty of problems/complications that I haven't even considered yet.
Photo dump of some of my inspiration:
(http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/bmw-s-1000-rr-1-625x417.jpg)
PRAËM X BMW S 1000 RR
(http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/capri-luftmeister1.1386318607.jpg)
Luftmeister's landspeed bike
(http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/honda-cb750-custom1.jpg)
WhiteHouse CB750 Motorimoda
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-99yqOelm5eM/Ud7boQKSzGI/AAAAAAAAlDY/vGTuDM71J_g/s1600/005.jpg)
WhiteHouse RCB1000
(http://www.pipeburn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/18_03_2016_Walt_Siegl_MV_Agusta_F3_Bol_Dor_racer_New_England_custom_bike_Pipeburn_motorcycle_03.jpg)
Walt Siegl's MV Agusta F3 Bol d’Or’ Racer
Post by: BRIDGE on July 14, 2017, 07:38:10 AM
Post by: stellarkyle on July 14, 2017, 07:48:43 AM
All nice looking references, but personally I'd go with something similar to the Luftmeister landspeed bike (that thing is beautiful!). Have you seen the guys over at BSK speedworks have made and endurance racer? looks like the sort of build you're after, or if you want to really challenge yourself I know someone made a replica of the JJ Cobas K100 endurance bike
That would definitely be cool! I'm not sure if I'm up for fabricating all of those fairing from scratch. I haven't seen similar fairings on AirTech.
Yeah, I've see BSK's bike! I didn't realize until now that it's such a similar paint scheme.
That JJ Cobas replica is bookmarked in my inspiration folder! It's a really cool build. I think that with all the turbo components, it would be better to do a 3/4 or 1/2 fairing instead of making a full fairing to fit around all of it. Plus, a 1/2 fairing will show off the turbo better. :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: BRIDGE on July 14, 2017, 08:43:23 AM
I did find these though http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/landspeed/landspeed.html (http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/landspeed/landspeed.html) so it would be more fabricating the brackets for a luftmeister look
Post by: stellarkyle on July 14, 2017, 08:53:20 AM
+1 on the showing the turbo, if you've got it flaunt it. Was just checking our airtech as it's always nice to dream but pennies are short so can't get a new seat anytime soon.
I did find these though http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/landspeed/landspeed.html (http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/landspeed/landspeed.html) so it would be more fabricating the brackets for a luftmeister look
The link didn't seem to work for me. It worked for me without the "L" at the end. http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/landspeed/landspeed.htm
Those are definitely close to Luftmeister but I think I still prefer the endurance style more. I plan to start working on the fairings this winter so there's still time for my plan to change.
Post by: BRIDGE on July 14, 2017, 09:00:45 AM
Post by: Christopherguzzi on July 14, 2017, 04:45:14 PM
Post by: stellarkyle on July 14, 2017, 11:15:21 PM
Might be a good look to go with different headlights, a la an s1000rr. When they first came out I thought it was pushing the envelope, but it quickly grew on me as you have to give BMW credit for their bold styling.
(https://www.motobrick.com/webkit-fake-url://1279a8ec-7158-4a5c-a7fc-3ed1f67b0b24/imagejpeg)
I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying. It also looks like the link to the picture is broken. Are you saying I could use the lights off of a S100RR on my bike?
Post by: stellarkyle on July 14, 2017, 11:45:36 PM
(https://imgur.com/LjR7MMv)
(https://i.imgur.com/LjR7MMv.jpg)
As soon as I stopped, I noticed smoking coming from behind me. The rotor was bright orange. It was much brighter before I took this picture.
(https://imgur.com/lOTyeM3)
(https://i.imgur.com/lOTyeM3.jpg)
Hey, at least now you guys can see the welds where Luftmeister added the spacers for the wider wheel.
My friend who has a truck and ramp is out of town but, thankfully, a Good Samaritan, who also rides, stopped and offered to get his truck and ramp and bring me and my bike to my house. We just dodged an incoming thunderstorm and I haven't had a chance to tear into the bike yet.
All this to ask, "What are the standard parts to replace after a rear tire lock-up?". I'm pretty sure the rotor warped because it catches on the pads all the way around except for around the small area where the pads were clamped down on the rotor as it cooled. The plastic dust cover is completely melted too. I'm mentally bracing for the worst: new rotor, new pads, and new caliper or at least another rebuild kit.
Does anyone know what could have caused this and how it could have been prevented?
Post by: Mike Flores on July 15, 2017, 01:40:04 PM
Your brakeline is really old, and has started to fall apart on the inside... the rubber in the line that has broken down might be "flapping" inside the brakeline, creating a one way valve. Basically, everytime you touched the rear brake, the brakepads compressed against the rotor, but when you released the brake lever the pads stayed pressed down instead of backing off. Each subsequent press of the lever cased the caliper to brake harder, building up all that heat, and once you slowed down enough for the wheel's rotation to not overcome the braking force, it locked up.
If I were you, I'd replace the caliper with a freshly rebuilt one, along with brake pads, rotor, and new brakelines. I'd probably also rebuild the master cylinder while you're doing all that.
Post by: Christopherguzzi on July 15, 2017, 02:58:56 PM
I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying. It also looks like the link to the picture is broken. Are you saying I could use the lights off of a S100RR on my bike?
Sorry about the link that is not working, just meant to say different headlights on each side of the fairing would be cool. Don't need to be BMW headlights specifically, but just different on each side.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 18, 2017, 02:31:53 PM
Finally had time to take a look at the damage. Here's what I found. All the gaskets where completely fried.
(https://i.imgur.com/XmjcZSF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vP2GSvq.jpg)
The rotor was visibly warped and it had deep grooves in it. A new EBC MD611 Brake Rotor is on it's way. Also ordered new EBC FA18 brake pads all around.
(https://i.imgur.com/70hFITK.jpg)
I'm going to get a new gasket kit and see if I can re-use the caliper. If it doesn't seal, I'll get a use caliper and put the new gasket kit on it. I'm also going to rebuild the other front caliper while I'm at it. Later this week, I'm going to take off all my brake lines and see if a local hydraulic shop can build me stainless steel braided lines.
Where do the two small O Rings in the caliper repair kit go?
(http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/NotesParts/34112310493_1_B.jpg)
Do they go on the bolts or here?
(https://i.imgur.com/dqPzn7g.png)
Post by: stellarkyle on July 20, 2017, 10:20:05 AM
Where do the two small O Rings in the caliper repair kit go?
(http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/NotesParts/34112310493_1_B.jpg)
Do they go on the bolts or here?
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k527/Stellarkyle/0D5DDE78-6E18-40FC-ADA8-1DE6E03B5A05.png)
Anyone have an idea?
Post by: BrickMW on July 20, 2017, 10:28:04 AM
Post by: stellarkyle on July 20, 2017, 10:44:51 AM
Check out THIS (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,7969.msg58488.html#msg58488)thread...
Thank you! This didn't show up when I searched for it before. I think I searched "caliper rebuild" instead of "brake rebuild".
So according to his pictures, you only use ONE of the O rings?
(http://i.imgur.com/2qlWU67.jpg)
Post by: BrickMW on July 20, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
Sorry I'm not more familiar... I am blessed with a drum brake.
I faintly remember reading a thread about a rebuild involving extra "not used" o-ring/s, but after searching, I think it might have been about a fork rebuild, not brakes. I can't seem to find it now.
Does each half have an opposing "stepped" recess on one of the holes? i.e. a place for two o-rings, one on each bolt, seated in recess on opposite halves? If yes, I would say mystery solved.
Post by: propav8r on August 03, 2017, 12:03:21 PM
OP, could you consider rehosting your images somewhere else? I use Imgur and have been very satisfied.
Post by: stellarkyle on August 03, 2017, 02:37:50 PM
Man, I wish Photobucket hadn't gotten so greedy about embedded images. They erased a huge wealth of knowledge online by that one boneheaded move.
OP, could you consider rehosting your images somewhere else? I use Imgur and have been very satisfied.
Thank you for pointing that out, Propav8r! In the next couple days, I'll re-upload all the pictures to imgur.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 15, 2017, 08:25:09 PM
Time for a little progress up date. It's hard enough to find time to work on my bike when taking a full class load and working part time and even harder to post about it!
I had a local hydraulic shop make some steel braided brake lines for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/mLrCDZN.jpg?1)
Also got the EBC rotor installed.
(https://i.imgur.com/5pdxgcH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/N0Z5eEo.jpg)
Instead of paying $150 for a new master cylinder from BMW, I picked up a MC from a 2009 Yamaha FZ6R on eBay for $18. It's reservoir is a little smaller than the stock, but ended up not being a problem at all. It stops better than stock ever did. I had seen the threads where guys would take the generic Chinese MC's and put them on their K bikes. I liked this idea but wanted a replacement that was Brembo and also had the hose attachment on the top instead of the bottom so bleeding the brakes would hopefully be easier.
(https://i.imgur.com/H0vfqNX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PD2JkaQ.jpg)
I did all of this a couple months ago so I don't remember all the specifics. I started off by sawing off the extra length of bolt of the "plunger".
(https://i.imgur.com/ezFHODn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1k3Uv8y.jpg)
Then I drilled a indention in the bolt so the nub on the brake pedal would sit properly.
(https://i.imgur.com/V8vG6F9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y9eRwqn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oMQB7ly.jpg?1)
If I remember correctly, the mounting bracket for the K100's MC are 45mm but the Yamaha MC had holes 50mm apart. I simply drilled the holes a little closer together.
(https://i.imgur.com/Sg7YGqz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fSNcrQC.jpg?1)
So far the new brakes have worked out great!
Other maintenance I've completed is replacing engine and gear oil, oil filter, fuel filter, and replaced the coolant with Engine Ice.
When I went to check the air filter, I found a fun surprise! This turbo bike was set up with a pod filter instead of an air box. I really love the look!
(https://i.imgur.com/4fqHZk7.jpg)
Post by: stellarkyle on October 15, 2017, 10:09:11 PM
In the middle of August, I was riding my bike on the interstate for the first time. I hadn't had the bike up to 70-80mph for more than a few seconds a this point. It was doing great for about 5mins before it surged a little then the engine completely died. I coasted over to the side of the road and the bike wouldn't start. The starter would engage but it wouldn't turn over. I trailered the bike back to the garage and didn't have much chance to work on it until a couple of weeks ago.
The first thing I suspected was the fuel pump. I wouldn't come on when the key was turned. I pulled the pump out of the tank and found this mess.
(https://i.imgur.com/Sz04K8n.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pc3BQ5q.jpg)
In hindsight, I should have tried soaking the pump to see if it could be resurrected but at the time I opted to get a new pump from one of the eBay links found on another thread. I picked up a new bracket and vibration dampener from them as well from Euro MotoElectrics (Part numbers 16 12 1 464 629 and 16 12 1 450 712). I replaced fuel filter and the gasket ring for the petrol gage as well (61 31 1 459 448). I cleaned out the tank a couple times with vinegar and scrubbed it with a brillo pad and it cleaned up nicely.
(https://i.imgur.com/3L4xL90.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Afb0Vo9.jpg)
With the new fuel pump, the bike would turn over and run for a second or two and stop. It was at least it was closer to starting than before. I checked the injectors next and found that three were spraying weakly and the fourth was barely at all. Instead of sending them off to be cleaned for $18 a piece, I bought new injectors from Osidetiger. I figured it was a good excuse to do the upgrade.
(https://i.imgur.com/VQQQVpZ.jpg)
I installed them this weekend and they've made the bike idle a little better. It'll run upwards of 5-8 seconds without dying now. It runs better without the choke being on at all and if I give it any throttle, it dies immediately. I went through the "Cause of No Start" guides and cleaned all electrical connections I could find. I pulled the sparks plugs and they were flooded but looked to be in good condition. I did, however, break the forth spark plug wire when remove the cap. The wire had rusted and fell off really easily. I swear stuff just breaks when I touch it.
(https://i.imgur.com/UlIMd9J.jpg)
Then I risked a fire by spraying carb cleaner around the manifold/throttle body trying to find an air leak but without success. I went to check the Z shaped crankcase breather hose that a lot of people have problems with for cracks only to find it wasn't there. I found this in it's place.
(https://i.imgur.com/yY0XNnR.jpg)
Here's where it connects.
(https://i.imgur.com/yy67Kh8.jpg)
The hose runs from the crankcase up under the front of the tank. The little pod filter was also oily as all get out. Where the Z shaped hose usually connects to the TB, there's a rubber plug/cover that's hose clamped to the TB (forgot to take a picture).
What been trying to do yesterday and today is test the fuel pressure regulator using a gauge setup from Harbor Freight but the darn thing won't stop leaking. Nothing like getting misted with gas. I even returned it and got a new one but the second one isn't much better. Couldn't be user error, right? :falldown: On the best seal I was been able to get, the gauge read 40 psi for a few seconds before springing another leak. I'll try getting some different hose attachments this week to see if I can get a better seal.
My next thought is to follow this guide to try to find some electrical issue unless anyone else has other ideas: http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/bike-wont-start1.htm (http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/bike-wont-start1.htm)
My only other thought is that it is an air leak somewhere else. Since it is a turbo, I guess there's potentially more places air could get in. I'm not going to spray carb cleaner all over the hot turbo though...
(https://imgur.com/a/xNkys)
(https://imgur.com/a/xNkys)
Post by: Martin on October 15, 2017, 10:20:40 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 15, 2017, 10:29:20 PM
Try pulling the fuel pump number six, marked Kraftstoppe. Start the bike and see if it will run with the residual fuel left in the combustion chamber, as the bike starts to die ram the fuse back in. It helps if there are two people one on the throttle one on the fuse. It should run albeit roughly. If it does run after doing this, check the temperature sensor and it's connector and clean with Deoxit. There are posts on how to test the sensor and the values you are looking for.
Regards Martin.
I'll give all of that a shot as soon as my replacement spark plug wires come in. I just ordered some used ones off of a running K100 LT. However, my bike had NGK wires before. Is there any reason for me to get a new set of NGK wires or should the used wires be fine?
Post by: Martin on October 15, 2017, 10:45:41 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 17, 2017, 09:28:15 AM
Post by: Martin on October 17, 2017, 04:26:30 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 21, 2017, 01:54:27 PM
Looking closer at the fuel pressure regulator, there’s no vacuum hose coming from the bottom of the regulator. Instead, the intake hose has a T fitting (seen in the picture) where one goes to the fuel rail (left looking at the picture) and the other to the throttle body (to the right looking at the picture). Is the regulator being bypassed? Being a turbo K, I don’t understand everything about why they’re set up the way they are.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on October 21, 2017, 02:07:18 PM
Post by: stellarkyle on October 21, 2017, 02:08:19 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171021/45fa7cb21e05496c1631256c9a5e9610.jpg)
The left side of the regulator connects here after the T fitting (yellow).
Also, these plugs don’t have a home (blue).
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171021/23aa4b70ee5b7d60a638cac1cac8c752.jpg)
Note it’s capped where the vacuum hose usually goes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: stellarkyle on October 21, 2017, 02:09:18 PM
While the plumbing is a bit odd, the end result should be similar to the customary way it's done. What is a bit of concern is the lack of a vacuum connection. That shouldn't matter at idle, but might affect the running when at full throttle and under load.
I agree. Definitely odd. Can any of the other guys with Turbos speak to this? How are yours connected?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: stellarkyle on October 21, 2017, 03:35:26 PM
(http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/efi-web%20page/thermistor3.jpg)
Post by: Arktasian on October 21, 2017, 09:44:29 PM
I can't speak for your system and can't see detail very well on the I phone, but a turbo bike fueling is hard to control without a manifold reference on the fuel pressure regulator as any increase from boost into the inlet manifold causes the same reduction in net fuel pressure. Atomization suffers and air fuel ratio can lean out at just the point it should be richening. As well, if you don't have a wide band O2 gauge to monitor fueling, nor the ability to tune your settings (believe that was the case on the Lufty) then you may court disaster when rolling on hard throttle and boost states. (Pistons melt)
Check out the RB site, I believe fuel regulator was supposed to be boost referenced.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 28, 2017, 07:55:30 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/52f82e233d8174bccab19f3ae88e463a.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Martin on October 28, 2017, 08:06:09 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 28, 2017, 08:13:27 PM
It's within the acceptable margin of error 36 PSI is standard.
Regards Martin.
That’s what I was thinking. I figured the problem would be the fuel pressure regulator or the weird way it’s hooked up but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I also got the correct resistance from the temperature gauge. Doesn’t the EFI only take into account only air temperature (and assumes correct fuel pressure) when idling under 900 RPM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Grim on October 30, 2017, 12:33:31 AM
Read this all. What a beast. I can't image one of these with a turbo LOL
Your start up and die still sounds like a vac leak. Has this thing still got a door style AFM? Is it after the intercooler?
The door style AFM has a switch for the fuel pump. You and stick your finger in and push the door and the pump should come on.
Under stand the basics of Bosch K FI
The fuel is controlled by the AFM and how much air it's pulling. So dying when you give it gas is an indication that the fuel mixture is falling on its face because the motor is pulling air after the AFM if it dies when you give it gas or idle because it's not pulling the door open to keep the pump on.
Pull every boot at every connection. I'm betting one is split.
Give me first dibs on that Fairing when you pull it.
Post by: Laitch on October 30, 2017, 12:31:01 PM
. . . because it's not pulling the door open to keep the pump on.In the basic early K100 and its Jetronic control unit, the pump runs all the time regardless of the AFM door position. Read Arktasian's post again, stellarkyle. If the pressure regulator is hooked up "in a weird way", that might be to accommodate turbo boost by overriding the 36psi–40psi standard pressure.
Post by: stellarkyle on October 30, 2017, 03:12:48 PM
Man you are close by. Your brake meltdown was at Louise's. I'm off Canton Hwy by the fish market.
Read this all. What a beast. I can't image one of these with a turbo LOL
Yeah, we are really close by then! We'll have get together to ride after my bike is up and running again.
It's definitely a beast. Maybe I'll let you take it for a spin. :riding:
Give me first dibs on that Fairing when you pull it.
First dibs is yours.
In the basic early K100 and its Jetronic control unit, the pump runs all the time regardless of the AFM door position. Read Arktasian's post again, stellarkyle. If the pressure regulator is hooked up "in a weird way", that might be to accommodate turbo boost by overriding the 36psi–40psi standard pressure.
That makes sense. I've scoured RB Racing's website but haven't been able to find anything regarding the fuel pressure regulator for the K100. It looks they've updated the website since earlier this year and possibly removed some pages I thought I remembered seeing.
I've already tried finding leaks by spraying carb cleaner on the manifold boots and other connection points without finding anything but I'll check them more thoroughly when I have time to work on the bike again. Gotta love midterms...
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on October 30, 2017, 04:08:50 PM
From post #31
"Looking closer at the fuel pressure regulator, there’s no vacuum hose coming from the bottom of the regulator. Instead, the intake hose has a T fitting (seen in the picture) where one goes to the fuel rail (left looking at the picture) and the other to the throttle body (to the right looking at the picture). Is the regulator being bypassed? Being a turbo K, I don’t understand everything about why they’re set up the way they are."
In an earlier post you mention that a breather hose is connected to the throttle body but it seemed you were referring to the plenum above the throttle bodies. I try to see what is going on with the plumbing on the engine, but none of the photos really gives a clear picture of where things are routed.
Disclaimer: I have never had any exposure to a fuel injected turbo engine. The following is based on limited experience with my three K bikes.
First, the fuel supply plumbing. Inside the tank the output of the pump should go to the input of the filter. Filter output goes out to the outlet hose connection on the fuel tank(the one to the rear).
A hose from the tank outlet should go to the rail(doesn't really matter which end). The other end of the rail should have a hose that goes to the side of the regulator. The outlet of the regulator shoud go to the forward hose connection on the tank. The smaller vacuum port on the regulator should go to the vacuum port on the rearmost throttle body.
Next is the breather plumbing. This is where I have problems, because if the turbo is installed between the MAF sensor and the plenum, the plenum will be under a positive pressure when the turbo is providing boost. Putting a positive pressure on the crankcase by connecting the plenum to the breather connection on the crancase can possibly result in blowing the engine seals at worst or at least blowing oil past the rings.
I suspect that the hose with the oil soaked filter is meant to vent the crankcase to atmosphere. If that is the case, then the hose connection on the plenum should be plugged to prevent unmetered air from entering thee intake manifold.
The breather hose with the filter should probably be installed so the free end is as high as possible to prevent oil from leaking out the end. The filter is to prevent negative crankcase pressure from sucking dirt into the engine. I wonder if the fact the filter is oil soaked is interfering with the operation of the breather to allow a neutral or slightly negative pressure in the crankcase.
My suggestion at this point is to plumb the fuel system as I described above before proceeding any further. This will get you back to the original configuration so we can totally eliminate any unknown fuel delivery issues from the equation.
With the plumbing corrected I would test the system for function:
First, disconnect the supply hose from the tank output at the rail. Turn on the ignition and try to start the engine. When the start button is pressed fuel should begin to flow and then continue to flow until a second or two after the button is released. Flow should be around a half liter per minute or about an ounce in 4-5 seconds.
Look closely at the fuel you pumped out. Is there water or any dirt specs in it??? If so, it will be necessary to flush more fuel to get the delivery plumbing cleaned out. when the proper amount of fuel is coming out of the hose, connect it and go to the other end of the rail.
Disconnect the return hose from the other end of the rail nad connect a clean hose from the rail into a clean container like you did with the supply line from the tank. Do the start button thing again and check the cleanliness of the fuel. You want to be absolutely sure there is no dirt in the rail that can get into the injectors.
When you're sure the rail is clean and the fuel flow is good, reconnect and go to the return hose connection at the tank and again do the start button thing with the hose into a clean container.
Last, connect your fuel gauge and check system pressure. If the pressure is correct put everything back together, fuel delivery is not your problem.
The next area to check would be fuel metering: First thing is to be sure that moving the MAF sensor flapper results in a changing resistance value at the ECU. This is where an old fashion analog meter is the best test. Resistance at the ECU connector should change smoothly as the flapper is moved. Any jumping or jerkiness in the needle's motion will indicate a bad sensor.
Beyond that it looks like you have tested the temperature sensor and it is working okay.
Are the injectors pulsing properly? If I am not mistaken,with power always on them, they are turned on by grounding them at the ECU. Is there a short to ground in the injector wiring that is causing them to be on all the time, flooding the engine with fuel after a few seconds of running? Easiest way to check would be to pull them and the rail and try cranking the engine with the start button. If they spray constantly without pulsing, that may be the problem.
Not sure what other suggestions I can offer.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on October 30, 2017, 04:27:57 PM
http://www.cardiagnostics.be/-now/Educational_sites_bestanden/BOSCH%20L-Jetronic%20Injection%20Manual.pdf
Post by: Grim on October 30, 2017, 05:19:57 PM
Some background info on the Jetronic system:
http://www.cardiagnostics.be/-now/Educational_sites_bestanden/BOSCH%20L-Jetronic%20Injection%20Manual.pdf
Nice link thanks for posting that.
Post by: stellarkyle on November 04, 2017, 05:27:22 PM
I have spent a bit of time rereading some of the more recent posts, and am a bit confused.
From post #31
In an earlier post you mention that a breather hose is connected to the throttle body but it seemed you were referring to the plenum above the throttle bodies. I try to see what is going on with the plumbing on the engine, but none of the photos really gives a clear picture of where things are routed.
Maybe I can help clarify how things are hooked up with some pictures:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/a3140f7ba256b3a43036f091e0b0b343.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/9f99cfaf9c1e0adcfe338752af128ef6.jpg)
Here’s where I’m confused. I don’t think the pink thing is standard on K100’s and the cyan thing is definitely not stock. Anyone know what they are? I need to take them off to get a closer look.
Also, it looks like the turbo is before the MAF sensor.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/d04193bf9e7d6725b6c6a3d2eeec219b.jpg)
The intercooler connects to the MAF sensor. Why would there be an additional air input (where the pod air filter is) after the intercooler? Wouldn’t this introduce the atmosphere into the already boosted air?
Post by: Grim on November 04, 2017, 05:43:03 PM
Maybe I can help clarify how things are cooked up with some pictures:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/a3140f7ba256b3a43036f091e0b0b343.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/9f99cfaf9c1e0adcfe338752af128ef6.jpg)
Here’s where I’m confused. I don’t think the pink think is standard on K100’s and the cyan thing is definitely not stock. Anyone know what they are? I need to take them off to get a closer look.
Also, it looks like the turbo is before the MAF sensor.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/d04193bf9e7d6725b6c6a3d2eeec219b.jpg)
The intercooler connects to the MAF sensor. Why would there be an additional air input (where the pod air filter is) after the intercooler? Wouldn’t this introduce the atmosphere into the already boosted air?
The "what am I" looks like it has an injector plug. With a turbo you need more fuel so maybe that's an injector upstream? That may be where the other hose is going.
Is there a blow off valve hiding under that filter?
Post by: stellarkyle on November 04, 2017, 06:20:49 PM
The "what am I" looks like it has an injector plug. With a turbo you need more fuel so maybe that's an injector upstream? That may be where the other hose is going.
Is there a blow off valve hiding under that filter?
Oooooh, that totally makes sense. RB Racing says on their website that equipped some of the K100’s with a fifth injector. Didn’t put two and two together.
The filter? The thing I highlighted with pink?
Post by: Grim on November 04, 2017, 08:18:50 PM
Post by: stellarkyle on November 04, 2017, 11:19:28 PM
The air filter on the intake tube might be hiding a blow off valve. Does it pop when you get out of the throttle?
I’ve never noticed anything like that. I’ve taken the pod off before and didn’t notice anything in there but I’ll take it off tomorrow and see what’s there.
Forgot to post this earlier. This is where the vacuum hose from the pink thing connects to the throttle body.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/ffbb056e21e281ccf235024b0579de28.jpg)
Post by: Grim on November 04, 2017, 11:38:56 PM
I’ve never noticed anything like that. I’ve taken the pod off before and didn’t notice anything in there but I’ll take it off tomorrow and see what’s there.
Forgot to post this earlier. This is where the vacuum hose from the pink thing connects to the throttle body.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/ffbb056e21e281ccf235024b0579de28.jpg)
Pink thing is fuel pressure regulator. It monitors intake vacuume. When You floor it intake vacuume drops and it gives more fuel. On my 1100 there is connections on the back that tie all four together to give the signal to the regulator. On he front it still has those ports to be used to balance the four throttles using a manometer.
Post by: stellarkyle on November 04, 2017, 11:44:44 PM
Pink thing is fuel pressure regulator. It monitors intake vacuume. When You floor it intake vacuume drops and it gives more fuel. On my 1100 there is connections on the back that tie all four together to give the signal to the regulator. On he front it still has those ports to be used to balance the four throttles using a manometer.
Do you know if this is standard on K100's or was it added because of the fifth injector? I couldn't find anything like it on the parts fiche.
All of my ports except the fourth one are hooked up instead of plugged... I'll check and see what all of them are connected to tomorrow.
Post by: Grim on November 05, 2017, 12:19:31 AM
Do you know if this is standard on K100's or was it added because of the fifth injector? I couldn't find anything like it on the parts fiche.
All of my ports except the fourth one are hooked up instead of plugged... I'll check and see what all of them are connected to tomorrow.
Looks about the same location as my 1100 in your picture just different in He vacuum plumbing. The Fisch at Max’s shows it but not it’s mounting location. Part 2
Post by: Arktasian on November 05, 2017, 09:52:19 AM
I believe the item you have colored "Pink" is a simple pressure sensor (not fuel pressure regulator), it is referenced to intake pressure and might be used to signal the water injection circuit (did you have that on yours?).
The fuel regulator which has the "T" fitting, and green hose heading to tank, does not appear to be manifold referenced (unless you have another small hose connected to it that isn't showing in your photos. If it isn't manifold (boost) referenced, then the ability to properly inject and maintain a good spray pattern while "in boost" is limited (mentioned this earlier). Being however as this is a kit you are seeking to just "run", and most likely don't wish to modify, you will have to stick with the design established by RB.
The pod filter on the right side looks suspiciously like an air bypass for "Anti Lag". That side of the charge air cooler is the cool side heading towards the inlet manifold and maf. You don't have a clear photo of the front lower area of the turbo, but I'm assuming there is a filter canister connected there to the compressor inlet, right? The pathway for air is pretty simple, it pressurizes through the compressor side of turbo, heads up to the left side of the "Split" cooler panel, exits on the right side heading back and should be turning 90 back towards inlet. There may be a "Flapper" type valve within the plumbing if that pod filter is connecting to this plumbing heading towards the inlet. It would open to allow air in during low throttle state "Roll Ons" so that things get going while the turbo is spooling.
If not, and its a blow off valve, it should be pretty obvious with a reference hose back to intake porting, and a cylindrical shape suggesting an internal valve and spring arrangement.
Post by: stellarkyle on November 07, 2017, 08:55:16 AM
The 5th injector model RB kit reportedly utilized a machined housing - that may be the "Cyan" item in your colored photo.
I believe the item you have colored "Pink" is a simple pressure sensor (not fuel pressure regulator), it is referenced to intake pressure and might be used to signal the water injection circuit (did you have that on yours?).
The fuel regulator which has the "T" fitting, and green hose heading to tank, does not appear to be manifold referenced (unless you have another small hose connected to it that isn't showing in your photos. If it isn't manifold (boost) referenced, then the ability to properly inject and maintain a good spray pattern while "in boost" is limited (mentioned this earlier). Being however as this is a kit you are seeking to just "run", and most likely don't wish to modify, you will have to stick with the design established by RB.
The pod filter on the right side looks suspiciously like an air bypass for "Anti Lag". That side of the charge air cooler is the cool side heading towards the inlet manifold and maf. You don't have a clear photo of the front lower area of the turbo, but I'm assuming there is a filter canister connected there to the compressor inlet, right? The pathway for air is pretty simple, it pressurizes through the compressor side of turbo, heads up to the left side of the "Split" cooler panel, exits on the right side heading back and should be turning 90 back towards inlet. There may be a "Flapper" type valve within the plumbing if that pod filter is connecting to this plumbing heading towards the inlet. It would open to allow air in during low throttle state "Roll Ons" so that things get going while the turbo is spooling.
If not, and its a blow off valve, it should be pretty obvious with a reference hose back to intake porting, and a cylindrical shape suggesting an internal valve and spring arrangement.
I think you’re right about both, Arktasian.
Here’s a better picture of the 5th injector.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/4812cd5759bc82a4dbf351a8364228fa.jpg)
And the “pink thing” is a Hobbs M4006-4 J5 fuel pressure switch. Their typical application is actually on aircraft.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/e30a562b6d1c3b3c3c1d2a355a724664.jpg)
There is a valve behind the pod filter.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/f7b052204647a8b31ef06575be6fcca4.jpg)
I traced all the vacuum hoses coming off the throttle bodies. One goes to the fuel pressure switch, another goes to the turbo gauge on the dash, and the last goes to (what I think is) the wastegate.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/ffce8c3696e46f1c87bc3850785a66f0.jpg)
Finally, I tested the the hall sensors. The connector under the tank disintegrated when I unplugged it. I tested the sensors anyway and one appears to be bad. I’ve ordered a new one from Euro Motoelectrics. Don’t know if this is the root of my rough idle issue, but it definitely wasn’t helping.
Post by: Arktasian on November 09, 2017, 09:07:28 AM
I have another aspect of your system to open for consideration - RB used two methods to scavenge oil from the drain point on the turbo cartridge. One was a traditional electric gear pump, rather sizeable and hard to miss. The other was a novel "Engine Oil Pump" check valve configuration that tee'd the suction side of pump inlet within lower crank case and pulled the oil out and up into the lube circuit. Have you inspected your turbo drain to see how the larger drain plumbing is configured? Chances are that it has a #8 low cracking pressure check valve immediately leaving that low point, followed by a #8 hose back to a fitting in the pan. If you look at that you will know there is no way oil will drain by gravity - most traditional turbos are placed well above the drain point connection on the crankcase of an engine which also must be above oil level by nature. I suspect you have the "Check Valve" arrangement.
The reason I'm asking is I have a fascination with the way this works, there is the exterior check valve you can see, low cracking pressure which serves to keep drain back oil from flooding the cartridge when engine is off. Without that you'd have a significant cloud of oil smoke every start up, and coking of the seals no doubt. Now, inside there is another check valve that is between the suction bell and the oil pump suction port, before the Tee'd connection point from the turbo suction drain line. Perhaps you have noted that on their web site and wondered. I believe they added the internal check valve to balance the suction that must be divided between turbo cartridge, and engine sump. A bit risky if imbalanced, one way might affect engine oiling, the other might reduce turbo drainability. On a turbo that hasn't been draining properly, you will oft times find oil films downstream in the compressor side of the tubing and charge air cooler. You may want to take those items apart to inspect and clean if there is an oil film (which might accumulate over time in a subtle way and not necessarily be a sign of trouble). If on the other hand there is fresh gleaming oil within those areas then you may need to inspect those check valves for trouble. If I'm not mistaken, the cracking pressure on the valve coming out of the turbo is around 1psi, and the valve inside the oil pan (actually mounted just on the top side of the flat removable portion) may be a slightly higher setting - to bias suction to not pull in lazy fashion from the easiest access in the sump. Oil is as with most fluids likely to take the pathway of least resistance.
Interested if you have any feedback.
Post by: stellarkyle on November 10, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
SHE'S ALIVE!
https://youtu.be/5G399aUNqL4 (https://youtu.be/5G399aUNqL4)
I replaced the hall sensor with an EnDuraLast one (http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/boignsen-k033edl.htm) from Euro Motoelectrics. It won't really idle without giving it gas and has some knocking but at least I have throttle response now! Before, the engine would die if I gave it any gas. The bike is also smokes more than a Waffle House hostess. Am I right in thinking the timing is too advanced? I'll try rotating the hall sensor counter-clockwise to see if that improves anything.
Kyle, when you removed the pod filter on the right side to expose the red cartridge inside, it looks a lot like it operates to open if negative pressure or vacuum is registered on the cooler plumbing side of things. The filter would have fit over that red cartridge? In that case, and without a reference line going from the workings to the inlet manifold it would be an "Anti Lag" type device I believe. If it did have a reference line hiding behind things then it could work as a blow off valve but wouldn't make much sense as most don't have or need a filter on them.
I have another aspect of your system to open for consideration - RB used two methods to scavenge oil from the drain point on the turbo cartridge. One was a traditional electric gear pump, rather sizeable and hard to miss. The other was a novel "Engine Oil Pump" check valve configuration that tee'd the suction side of pump inlet within lower crank case and pulled the oil out and up into the lube circuit. Have you inspected your turbo drain to see how the larger drain plumbing is configured? Chances are that it has a #8 low cracking pressure check valve immediately leaving that low point, followed by a #8 hose back to a fitting in the pan. If you look at that you will know there is no way oil will drain by gravity - most traditional turbos are placed well above the drain point connection on the crankcase of an engine which also must be above oil level by nature. I suspect you have the "Check Valve" arrangement.
The reason I'm asking is I have a fascination with the way this works, there is the exterior check valve you can see, low cracking pressure which serves to keep drain back oil from flooding the cartridge when engine is off. Without that you'd have a significant cloud of oil smoke every start up, and coking of the seals no doubt. Now, inside there is another check valve that is between the suction bell and the oil pump suction port, before the Tee'd connection point from the turbo suction drain line. Perhaps you have noted that on their web site and wondered. I believe they added the internal check valve to balance the suction that must be divided between turbo cartridge, and engine sump. A bit risky if imbalanced, one way might affect engine oiling, the other might reduce turbo drainability. On a turbo that hasn't been draining properly, you will oft times find oil films downstream in the compressor side of the tubing and charge air cooler. You may want to take those items apart to inspect and clean if there is an oil film (which might accumulate over time in a subtle way and not necessarily be a sign of trouble). If on the other hand there is fresh gleaming oil within those areas then you may need to inspect those check valves for trouble. If I'm not mistaken, the cracking pressure on the valve coming out of the turbo is around 1psi, and the valve inside the oil pan (actually mounted just on the top side of the flat removable portion) may be a slightly higher setting - to bias suction to not pull in lazy fashion from the easiest access in the sump. Oil is as with most fluids likely to take the pathway of least resistance.
Interested if you have any feedback.
I appreciate your fascination with these turbo bikes! They're intriguing machines. I wasn't able to find a reference line so I think your assessment about it being for anti-lag is correct.
I'll have to look into the oil situation soon. I'm just trying to get the bike running at the moment but I'll definitely tear into the turbo soon and try to analyze how it all works!
Post by: Arktasian on November 20, 2017, 10:04:17 AM
"It has some knocking"? Was that there before, is this a detonation or pinging type sound or something mechanical. Have you taken a compression test?
"The bike also smokes more than a Waffle House hostess" (pretty funny) - I see you are on the center stand, is this something that has previously existed on runs you made or a recent development? Does it continue if you run for a while or subside. (these engines are susceptible to oil wash down into the cylinder when left on the side stand or similar which is more of a start up thing). If its oil related you should be able to pick up on the smell pretty easily. Otherwise, and I'd be concerned it may be something to do with fuel system, it might be raw fuel dumping into her having an effect on smoke and the "knocking" you mentioned. You have previously mentioned a plethora of symptoms and unusual behaviour.
If your turbo is oiling the intake system it will gum up the charge air cooler and plumbing and smoke during operation too.
Was there oil around that lag valve when you had that apart (did you have the valve side of the unit taken apart?)
Just some thoughts on a Monday morning.
Post by: DavidATL on December 23, 2017, 10:38:33 PM
Sadly, I have pretty much only two pieces of advice for resurrecting old K's: inspect/change the pump vibration damper and change the under-tank o-ring. You've done them both! :-) I've done my spline lube twice so I may be able to offer some local eyeball advice on that one day. Regardless, hope your bike is back on the road soon!
Also, and I may be off base here, but have you changed the fuel pressure regulator since your unfortunate pump damper incident? It might have rubber bits in it preventing it from working correctly? Sorry if I missed a mention of this above.
David
(in Smyrna)
Post by: stellarkyle on December 28, 2017, 05:59:46 PM
So after finishing finals and a death in the family, I'm finally working on the bike again. After that last video of the bike working, I took it out for a test drive and it died on me again. I thought it was a bad battery at first (the old one wouldn't hold a charge) but a new battery didn't help. I was running into a problem where the starter wouldn't engage after a couple tries and the headlight would go out. The trick to clean the brushes (rolling the bike backwards and popping the clutch) helped. Since it sounded like a bad ground in the starter, I replaced the brushes. It now consistently turns over and the headlight no longer goes out.
I'm back to the exact same symptoms I was having before I replaced the hall sensor only the hall sensor is testing fine now. The fuel pressure in the system is still reading at 40 psi. The bike will run for 5-15 seconds and then die. Giving it any throttle kills it instantly. The spark plugs are wet.
After I first replaced the hall sensor, the bike was running really rough but I had throttle response for the first time. I adjusted the advance and adjusted the idle screw on the throttle body to run richer and the bike ran great. Then it died on the test ride. Now, I adjusted the idle richness screw to be leaner and it idles a little better/longer. Don't know if that means anything but thought I'd mention it.
I'm stumped.
Yeah, David! We should definitely put a group ride together.
Post by: Martin on December 28, 2017, 07:49:50 PM
Regards Martin.
K100 Temp Sensor Values.jpg (38.1 kB . 768x464 - viewed 1196 times)
Post by: stellarkyle on December 29, 2017, 05:24:54 PM
Check the temperature sensor connector or the temperature sensor. A fault I either can cause over fueling.
Regards Martin.
Turns out the connection between the MAF and the plenum had come loose. I had checked it with a flashlight but wasn't able to see the hose had slid off on the far side where I couldn't see. It's running and has throttle response again! Glad it was any easy fix! Hopefully the bike will stay running long enough for me to actually start working on the project! :riding:
Post by: BENSPEN on January 20, 2018, 06:57:21 PM
Fellow K100 Turbo Owner Here (I Have a thread in the forum about my cafe build as well, not as in depth as I dreamed it would be)(also a college student if you are as well) I've been off the forums for a few months which totally sucks because I could have helped with a lot of this, I have spent countless hours trying to decipher the puzzle that is the Rb Racing luftmiester relationship.
Firstly, What welds did luftmiester put to accommodate a wider wheel? I dont know if i have those,
The crankcase breather should not affect the running of the bike, i have run mine without one and with the plugged one, the plenum chamber should be blocked off to prevent crankcase pressurization as mentioned in the thread, The thing I find weird is that you dont have a secondary fuel pressure regulator, Seeing as how you are running only the original k bike FPR, You should definitely have a primary vacuum hose connected to the bottom of your FPR, the top one should be fuel from the tank and the bottom one should go to the right side of the fuel rail, Mine runs from tank to 2nd FPR with its own vacuum line then to the stock FPR with its own vacuum line then to the rail and it was a complete pain in the ass to figure out how to route, also it has a fuel pressure adjustment screw and honestly i dont think it does anything. I have another Bosch (I think??) Fpr on a custom plate with a wastegate controller attached to it bolted to the top of the block. As for the secondary Intake, It is only supposed to intake from that pod filter when the turbo is crating a vaccum or ambient pressure, there is a valve inside that closes when it pressurizes, I tested mine and it works surprisingly well, i have no idea why yours is red though, mine is silver. As for your fifth injector, The T line on your FPR should have fuel in it and if it goes to that fuel pressure switch I personally think it switches to allow fuel to be atomized by that wierd 5th injector, pretty cool setup. i am however fairly certain it is either experimental luftmiester or put on by someone else. Im pretty sure whenever luftmiester put on a 5th injector it was a meth injector in the top of their custom aluminum plenum chamber made specifically for it, and i thought it was on later 1100s. also the throttle body vaccuum lines to the FPR make little difference in running, i thought my K had been dying due to a lack of vaccum, but i had some builder error problems. :2thumbup: Where is your wastegate conroller? It should be at the end of the two wastegate lines off your turbo. Also these dont have BOVs, I also am so positive i know where your non plugged in blue plug goes but its been a while for me. I dont know if you had mentioned it previously but the turbo is an IHI RHB52 VC19 if i remember correctly, its super simple, drilled bushings, non sealed, I can give you the turbo guys number should you need. also as i believe artasian said, the oil fed and drain on these is very temperamental and quite essential.
Also I found a cool pod filter for the turbo with a water shield i could probably dig up the link to
also contrary to my predictions, the turbo is awesome :riding:
ps sorry for how messy this paragraph was, i had a lot of thoughts.
Post by: Arktasian on January 21, 2018, 04:25:26 PM
Seeing as how both you and Kyle are getting to know your tubo bricks, I'll offer again a word of advice for the oiling feed and scavenging.
Through your posts, I see similarities in random, incorrect behaviour which deserves the highest attention on one of these RB designs, before a lot of run time is developed. Much cheaper and less carnage to suss things out in the garage while gaining a strong understanding of the entire turbo system and confirming the subtle bits are right.
Or not and see what happens, but be assured it can manifest in an alarmingly quick manner on a boosted engine, as opposed to stock NA.
Post by: stellarkyle on January 22, 2018, 03:50:11 PM
Hey there stellar kyle,
Fellow K100 Turbo Owner Here (I Have a thread in the forum about my cafe build as well, not as in depth as I dreamed it would be)(also a college student if you are as well) I've been off the forums for a few months which totally sucks because I could have helped with a lot of this, I have spent countless hours trying to decipher the puzzle that is the Rb Racing luftmiester relationship.
I've seen your thread! I've actually read through it a couple times trying to help troubleshoot my own turbo brick.
Firstly, What welds did luftmiester put to accommodate a wider wheel? I dont know if i have those,
Here's a picture of an article about the wheel I found online. I don't currently have a good picture of the welds but you can kind of see them in my post about my rear brake locking up.
(https://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/17/17/52/92/dscn1420.jpg)
The crankcase breather should not affect the running of the bike, i have run mine without one and with the plugged one, the plenum chamber should be blocked off to prevent crankcase pressurization as mentioned in the thread, The thing I find weird is that you dont have a secondary fuel pressure regulator, Seeing as how you are running only the original k bike FPR, You should definitely have a primary vacuum hose connected to the bottom of your FPR, the top one should be fuel from the tank and the bottom one should go to the right side of the fuel rail, Mine runs from tank to 2nd FPR with its own vacuum line then to the stock FPR with its own vacuum line then to the rail and it was a complete pain in the ass to figure out how to route, also it has a fuel pressure adjustment screw and honestly i dont think it does anything. I have another Bosch (I think??) Fpr on a custom plate with a wastegate controller attached to it bolted to the top of the block. As for the secondary Intake, It is only supposed to intake from that pod filter when the turbo is crating a vaccum or ambient pressure, there is a valve inside that closes when it pressurizes, I tested mine and it works surprisingly well, i have no idea why yours is red though, mine is silver. As for your fifth injector, The T line on your FPR should have fuel in it and if it goes to that fuel pressure switch I personally think it switches to allow fuel to be atomized by that wierd 5th injector, pretty cool setup. i am however fairly certain it is either experimental luftmiester or put on by someone else. Im pretty sure whenever luftmiester put on a 5th injector it was a meth injector in the top of their custom aluminum plenum chamber made specifically for it, and i thought it was on later 1100s. also the throttle body vaccuum lines to the FPR make little difference in running, i thought my K had been dying due to a lack of vaccum, but i had some builder error problems. :2thumbup: Where is your wastegate conroller? It should be at the end of the two wastegate lines off your turbo. Also these dont have BOVs, I also am so positive i know where your non plugged in blue plug goes but its been a while for me. I dont know if you had mentioned it previously but the turbo is an IHI RHB52 VC19 if i remember correctly, its super simple, drilled bushings, non sealed, I can give you the turbo guys number should you need. also as i believe artasian said, the oil fed and drain on these is very temperamental and quite essential.
Yeah, as far as I can tell, I only have the one FPR and a fuel pressure switch (highlighted in pink). I've honestly not pin-pointed the location of my wastegate... The first time mine died, it was a bad Hall Sensor. The second and most recent time I think it was a combination of bad/weak battery, bad grounds in the starter, and the hose after the MAF sensor had partially come off.
I definitely need to tear into the turbo system. Pretty much everything turbo related on the front of the bike is oily... I likely have a small leak or two somewhere.
Also I found a cool pod filter for the turbo with a water shield i could probably dig up the link to
Nice! I'd love to see it.
Shoot me a text if you ever want pictures of an area of concern on another turbo bike, or you have any questions that I could answer (not many) (8028815211)
also contrary to my predictions, the turbo is awesome :riding:
Thanks! I'll definitely contact you. I've already grabbed your number so you may want to remove your number seeing as this is public and all...
I agree! When my bike is running, I love the turbo!
Seeing as how both you and Kyle are getting to know your tubo bricks, I'll offer again a word of advice for the oiling feed and scavenging. Through your posts, I see similarities in random, incorrect behaviour which deserves the highest attention on one of these RB designs, before a lot of run time is developed. Much cheaper and less carnage to suss things out in the garage while gaining a strong understanding of the entire turbo system and confirming the subtle bits are right. Or not and see what happens, but be assured it can manifest in an alarmingly quick manner on a boosted engine, as opposed to stock NA.
I agree. I need to tear into it to make sure everything it working properly. Definitely the better move long term. I've just been focused on getting the non-turbo components working. The last regular maintenance thing I need to do is check the splines. After that, I want to ride for a couple hundred miles to make sure everything non-turbo is working well before starting on the turbo.
Post by: Arktasian on January 22, 2018, 05:58:58 PM
The turbo when on your bike becomes part of the dna of operation. You can't just ignore it and ride, sort of like being just a little bit pregnant. It consumes main lube oil, and requires a tricky suction device to drain it, or risk blowing shaft seals and fill your intake and exhaust with oil as it is striving to function. That makes a mess much like Ben described. As well, even with a simple RB design for increasing fuel delivery, proper operation must be in effect or risk random fueling and operational issues.
In your case, confirming proper oil feed and scavenging is rather simple - running with the oil suction line removed from the turbo drain and having submerged in a smallish container partially filled with clean lube oil. When the test is conducted, run the bike at idle and other rpm's to witness that:
a) oil is exiting from the turbo drain fitting into the receptacle at a rate consistent with proper feed rate.
b) oil is being sucked from the receptacle at a rate higher than it is being filled - indicating the suction circuit is working correctly.
Edit added, the above test is only run while there is oil in the container, kill the engine just as soon as it has sucked the level down to the hose. You do not want to be running without oil in there as you would then be sucking basically straight air into the main lube circuit to the engine - with obvious results. If it isn't functioning as above, then you shouldn't be riding the bike at all.
Post by: stellarkyle on January 23, 2018, 10:23:46 AM
So Kyle, your last comment is exactly what I am driving at. Ben made comments about "A seized turbo", but then proceeded to ride the bike and take stock of various obtuse symptoms like excessive oil consumption, etc. Was the turbo still on the bike?
The turbo when on your bike becomes part of the dna of operation. You can't just ignore it and ride, sort of like being just a little bit pregnant. It consumes main lube oil, and requires a tricky suction device to drain it, or risk blowing shaft seals and fill your intake and exhaust with oil as it is striving to function. That makes a mess much like Ben described. As well, even with a simple RB design for increasing fuel delivery, proper operation must be in effect or risk random fueling and operational issues.
In your case, confirming proper oil feed and scavenging is rather simple - running with the oil suction line removed from the turbo drain and having submerged in a smallish container partially filled with clean lube oil. When the test is conducted, run the bike at idle and other rpm's to witness that:
a) oil is exiting from the turbo drain fitting into the receptacle at a rate consistent with proper feed rate.
b) oil is being sucked from the receptacle at a rate higher than it is being filled - indicating the suction circuit is working correctly.
Edit added, the above test is only run while there is oil in the container, kill the engine just as soon as it has sucked the level down to the hose. You do not want to be running without oil in there as you would then be sucking basically straight air into the main lube circuit to the engine - with obvious results. If it isn't functioning as above, then you shouldn't be riding the bike at all.
You're completely right, Arktasian. Before, I was thinking of the turbo as more of an add-on, not a vital part of the whole machine. I'll run this test as soon as I get a chance. Do you have any other tests you'd suggest?
I dont know if you had mentioned it previously but the turbo is an IHI RHB52 VC19 if i remember correctly, its super simple, drilled bushings, non sealed, I can give you the turbo guys number should you need.
Ben, I'd love the number of the turbo guy you used. How much did the rebuild run if you don't mind me asking?
Post by: K_grendell on February 13, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
I ask because I am building a k75 turbo with a sidecar right now. I’m using a new Borg Warner ball bearing/liquid cooled and smaller turbo for quick spool time but has a high cfm rate for up to 200 hp (which I’ll never see). My fueling is a bit more advanced than the Hobb switch, but I need to find a way to mount 2 injectors onto the manifold.
The valve/pod filter before your maf on the charge side of the turbo remains open under vaccuum until boost builds to retain proper throttle response.
Have you seen any ignition modifications for the kit? I.e. retards timing under boost?
Good luck with it, it’s a gorgeous bike!
Post by: Skunky on February 17, 2018, 11:39:54 AM
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,10818.msg93595.html#msg93595
Post by: stellarkyle on March 19, 2018, 10:40:25 AM
Kyle, did you disassemble the fifth injector setup? I’d love to see how it was built, how many cc’s the injector is, and wonder at what psi the Hobbs switch kicks on? Do you know if you have a 8, or 12 psi kit?
No, I haven't disassembled the 5th injector setup. I'm pretty sure it's the 12 psi kit.
Have you seen any ignition modifications for the kit? I.e. retards timing under boost?
I haven't seen any, no!
In your case, confirming proper oil feed and scavenging is rather simple - running with the oil suction line removed from the turbo drain and having submerged in a smallish container partially filled with clean lube oil. When the test is conducted, run the bike at idle and other rpm's to witness that:a) oil is exiting from the turbo drain fitting into the receptacle at a rate consistent with proper feed rate.b) oil is being sucked from the receptacle at a rate higher than it is being filled - indicating the suction circuit is working correctly.Edit added, the above test is only run while there is oil in the container, kill the engine just as soon as it has sucked the level down to the hose. You do not want to be running without oil in there as you would then be sucking basically straight air into the main lube circuit to the engine - with obvious results. If it isn't functioning as above, then you shouldn't be riding the bike at all.
I wanted to get some clarification before running this test. So I should disconnect the hose from the turbo drain, stick that hose in a container with some oil then also have to have another container to catch the oil coming from the turbo drain. I'd then compare the amounts of oil in the two containers and check to make sure that more is getting sucked up then is draining?
Does anyone know the proper oil feed rate for the turbo? I couldn't find any specs on RB's site.
Post by: Arktasian on March 19, 2018, 05:12:23 PM
No, I haven't disassembled the 5th injector setup. I'm pretty sure it's the 12 psi kit.
I haven't seen any, no!
I wanted to get some clarification before running this test. So I should disconnect the hose from the turbo drain, stick that hose in a container with some oil then also have to have another container to catch the oil coming from the turbo drain. I'd then compare the amounts of oil in the two containers and check to make sure that more is getting sucked up then is draining?
Does anyone know the proper oil feed rate for the turbo? I couldn't find any specs on RB's site.
The information is rather secretive online - but utilize a small Tupperware container that is about 1-2 litres, remove the drain line with its check valve from turbo drain port and submerge in half oil filled vessel. Get buddy to start with stop watch and see what she does at a) idle cold & hot, b) high revs hot. The fill behaviour is slow, like about 60-80ml/minute, while drainage should be much quicker, perhaps same volume in 20 seconds. I don't believe RB has posted these numbers anywhere but could be wrong. Plain bearing turbos don't require a lot of oil, too much and it can overtake drain rate and blow past the seals to create "clouds of smoke" behind you. You need to confirm between cold/ hot and idle/ warm to ensure the system can handle variation that is inherent to that scavenge strategy.
Good luck.
In edit - VERY IMPORTANT - shut the test down before all the oil has been sucked from the container, or else you'll pull air into your main lube system - damage bottom end etc.
Post by: stellarkyle on April 08, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
The information is rather secretive online - but utilize a small Tupperware container that is about 1-2 litres, remove the drain line with its check valve from turbo drain port and submerge in half oil filled vessel. Get buddy to start with stop watch and see what she does at a) idle cold & hot, b) high revs hot. The fill behaviour is slow, like about 60-80ml/minute, while drainage should be much quicker, perhaps same volume in 20 seconds. I don't believe RB has posted these numbers anywhere but could be wrong. Plain bearing turbos don't require a lot of oil, too much and it can overtake drain rate and blow past the seals to create "clouds of smoke" behind you. You need to confirm between cold/ hot and idle/ warm to ensure the system can handle variation that is inherent to that scavenge strategy.
Good luck.
In edit - VERY IMPORTANT - shut the test down before all the oil has been sucked from the container, or else you'll pull air into your main lube system - damage bottom end etc.
Thank you Arktasian! I'll give this a shot as soon as I can. I'm currently tackling the spline lube.
Speaking of which, I have the transmission off to lube the clutch spline and am trying to pinpoint the source of a slow leak I've had.
These are the parts I'm replacing:
Clutch Cable - 32 73 2 324 955
Clutch Boot - 23 13 1 338 731 (wasn't actively leaking but was deformed some)
x6 Screw - 21 21 1 454 417 (change recommended when removing clutch)
x6 Crush Washer - 21 21 1 242 377 (change recommended)
Hex Nut - 11 21 1 460 673 (change recommended)
Compression Ring - 11 21 1 460 696
O-Ring - 11 21 1 460 467
I've read that the O-Ring and Compression Ring are common places for leaks but I'm not sure this is the source. It looks as though the leak is coming from between the housing cover (#2) and the transmission. Is there not a gasket that goes here?
(https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/DiagramsMid/B0000541.png?v=07242017)
There's oil buildup where the two meet which makes it look like the source of the leak but might just be because there's a bit of a ridge there.
Post by: Laitch on April 08, 2018, 01:27:39 AM
It looks as though the leak is coming from between the housing cover (#2) and the transmission. Is there not a gasket that goes here?You guys who work without manuals are a breed apart. Here's a page from a BMW workshop manual online—from this site, in fact.
There's oil buildup where the two meet which makes it look like the source of the leak but might just be because there's a bit of a ridge there.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/1/1601-080418012901.png)
Post by: stellarkyle on April 08, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
You guys who work without manuals are a breed apart. Here's a page from a BMW workshop manual online—from this site, in fact.
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/1/1601-080418012901.png)
I appreciate it! I think I didn't find anything online about this because I was searching using the cover's part number instead of just "transmission cover"...
Post by: stellarkyle on April 28, 2018, 10:47:45 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/5c73581f12665f5806a0cd19152a0759.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/085fc81355e22e7e95f75821c784b47d.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Arktasian on May 04, 2018, 09:21:55 AM
Yours being a turbo with above stock power output but depending on budget, could go several ways.
This design of clutch is similar to the airhead in that the friction steels can warp due to heat and also just the way the support basket is designed and such. If that happens the used disc will also tend to warp - not a direct problem for reuse but something to be aware of if just a disc is swapped out, as that will then tend to slip or require a tedious bed in period.
I've tested upgrades, and use a much stronger disc with 4 paddles (or pucks, sometimes referred to as a ceramic disc although there is a blend of metal in the friction material, was from Oleg @ Clutchnet.com ), but have also found you can live with warped steels if they are at the same angle (basically removed at the same time, kept together). The stronger, thicker spring is a good idea, but I also machine the fulcrum point of the inner plate which changes release ratio (and clamping load alternately). That started out as a test on the airhead, but now is the stock clutch, never been able to get it to slip and releases nicely.
If your parts all look good (and may not have seen much use), & there aren't heat witness signs on the steels, then you could clean/ roughen the plate (a wash and burn with alcohol is an age old proven "economy" method) and put back together.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 01, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
The only thing I could find on the forum that sounded similar was the grub screw being loose but I don't think the symptoms quite match up. Anyone have any suggestions?
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 01, 2018, 01:08:53 PM
Post by: stellarkyle on July 01, 2018, 02:35:18 PM
The grub screw manifests itself by a lot(1-2 inches or more) of looseness at the end of the shift lever.
Does this sound like a grub screw problem to you? I re-did the transmission cover gasket when I did the spline lube so not sure how the grub screw could have come loose. My thought was something got out of place when putting the transmission cover back on even though everything looked right according to the manual.
Post by: Laitch on July 01, 2018, 03:39:48 PM
The grub screw manifests itself by a lot(1-2 inches or more) of looseness at the end of the shift lever.If your bike's shift lever has movement to the degree mentioned in Gryph's post, then the problem may reside in the grub screw. It us unconnected with what you've done. It's a factory assembly flaw that can be corrected.Does this sound like a grub screw problem to you? I re-did the transmission cover gasket when I did the spline lube so not sure how the grub screw could have come loose.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 03, 2018, 04:11:13 PM
If your bike's shift lever has movement to the degree mentioned in Gryph's post, then the problem may reside in the grub screw. It us unconnected with what you've done. It's a factory assembly flaw that can be corrected.
I checked the grub screw and it's tight. I couldn't even tighten it at all. Any other thoughts?
Post by: Laitch on July 03, 2018, 05:25:40 PM
I checked the grub screw and it's tight. I couldn't even tighten it at all. Any other thoughts?Now that I've reviewed Reply #77, I think you should verify that your clutch lever, cable and clutch bolt are adjusted to specification and working correctly, and that the clutch rod didn't roll under the bench and get left out during the reassembly process.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on July 03, 2018, 07:13:48 PM
Post by: stellarkyle on July 03, 2018, 10:00:07 PM
Are you sure you checked the grub screw? It's inside the transmission and takes half a day to get to it. Do you have a lot of free play at the end of the shifter?
Yep! I already had the bike half apart. There's no free play in my shifter. It's this lil guy, no? (https://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/17/72/25/37/grub_s10.jpg)
Post by: Arktasian on July 04, 2018, 10:26:23 AM
Regarding the "grub screw", did you put an allen key to it and merely tighten - perhaps getting it to move a touch? That might disturb the sleeping beast so to speak and allow it to work loose later. Best long term approach is to remove screw and clean all surfaces and threads completely (use brake clean), then reassemble utilizing Loctite.
Otherwise, what you seem to be describing is a clutch that never releases, so I'd have to concur with "Laitch's" comments and advice.
Additionally, is there a normal resistance on the clutch lever to indicate its registering with the push rod and clutch. If it was able to release before but doesn't now, best to review everything that has been apart. I'm not entirely sure it is possible to re-install the disc backwards, but that would be a thought.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 05, 2018, 01:56:26 PM
Kyle, you've been rather busy and adventuresome.
Is that your way of saying I'm in over my head? If so, I totally agree. :riding:
Regarding the "grub screw", did you put an allen key to it and merely tighten - perhaps getting it to move a touch? That might disturb the sleeping beast so to speak and allow it to work loose later. Best long term approach is to remove screw and clean all surfaces and threads completely (use brake clean), then reassemble utilizing Loctite.
It didn't even budge which really surprised me. If it had moved at all, I would have taken it apart and cleaned everything.
Otherwise, what you seem to be describing is a clutch that never releases, so I'd have to concur with "Laitch's" comments and advice.
Additionally, is there a normal resistance on the clutch lever to indicate its registering with the push rod and clutch. If it was able to release before but doesn't now, best to review everything that has been apart. I'm not entirely sure it is possible to re-install the disc backwards, but that would be a thought.
That's exactly right; it never releases. I've checked the plate, compression spring, compression plate, etc and everything is installed correctly. Sounds like the push rod may be the culprit. With the transmission out, I can change gears no matter where I position of the clutch push rod by hand.
Post by: Arktasian on July 05, 2018, 02:40:21 PM
The point is what is going on with the push rod, the little bearing carrier adjacent to the crank arm, etc. There should be a definite "different resistance" feel to the clutch release handle on your bars, as you squeeze it slightly to reduce the so called free play at which point the little bearing and push rod are moving forward and seating in the Bellville clutch spring disc center pocket and relieving disc clamping. That all should have a definite feel of resistance. If not, then unless you have a boatload full of excess free play you may have a worn hole in the rod pocket and its just moving towards the front without catching on the spring disc. It should be a smallish, polished seat in the center disc of the spring. Another clue would be if you changed any settings significantly - which might signify something done wrong. Shouldn't be too hard to diagnose.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 31, 2018, 12:20:33 PM
I now have a new problem though. My bike keeps flooding. In order to get the bike to start after sitting a while, I have to remove the fuse for the fuel pump and run the starter for 15-30 seconds until it slowly comes to life. I can then put the fuse back in and it will run but run rich. I can then kill and turn the bike back on without problems, but if it sits for a while (a few hours or overnight), it'll be flooded and won't start until I try to start it a while with the fuse out again. If I hit the starter button while it's idling, the RPMs drop and it dies or almost dies.
Here's what I've looked into:
1. Injectors seems to be squirting correctly. I didn't pull them but they're all clicking like they're opening and closing properly.
2. Air temp sensor in the MAF seems to be working fine as well. I didn't heat it up to measure the full range but it showed the right resistance at ambient temperature.
3. All the plugs were wet when I pulled them.
4. Checked and cleaned the L-Jetronic connection.
5. Fuel pressure is right around the 36psi range. I replaced the FPR anyway without luck.
6. I replaced the coolant temperature sensor.
7. I replaced the fuel pressure switch that goes to the 5th injector in the manifold (turbo).
8. I verified the timing and position of the Hall sensor using a timing light and everything was good.
It seems like I have two issues: 1st - Fuel is finding its way into the cylinder after sitting. 2nd - I'm getting too much fuel while it's running.
Post by: Arktasian on July 31, 2018, 04:37:17 PM
Did you ever perform the oil scavenge a) drain rate, b) pump back to sump rate tests? I'm mentioning that again due to it being very misunderstood and underappreciated while being largely responsible for smoking turboed K bikes.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 31, 2018, 06:42:27 PM
Think what I'd try is to slip a small pressure gauge inline with the fuel injectors. Although many pressure regulators will bleed down over time, the pressure should remain somewhat stable on initial shut down. If not, then it would be simple to access that one or more injectors is leaking/ dribbling. That would explain both symptoms, although a confirmation of regulator might still be in order (it is far easier to get to as well)
Now that you mention it, when I had a pressure gauge hooked up in line (between the tank and rail) before replacing the FPR, the fuel pressure would be at the right pressure and then would drop over the course of a few seconds when I turned off the engine... What I don't understand is if I loose pressure that quickly, I don't see how I could start it again without a problem 15mins later, but not 3-8 hours later.
Another thing to note, last year I replaced the four injectors with Oside Tiger injectors but didn't replace or touch the fifth injector in the manifold. Maybe that's the problem or maybe one of the new injectors went bad. I'll pull the rail to take a look and cut power to the fifth injector to see if there's any difference.
Did you ever perform the oil scavenge a) drain rate, b) pump back to sump rate tests? I'm mentioning that again due to it being very misunderstood and underappreciated while being largely responsible for smoking turboed K bikes.
I haven't yet, no. That was next on my to-do list after the spline lube/clutch problem until this new issue came up. I'll definitely look into that soon. Mine can be a bit smokey so thank you for the reminder!
Post by: Arktasian on August 01, 2018, 09:05:58 AM
The other possibility might be that the "ambitious" RB vacuum and control hose plumbing have a wrong connection to allow an incorrect handling of the fuel. Have you managed to find a document on the plumbing - a polite query to RB might prove helpful (believe their documentation was pretty good, there were multiple renditions of kits and hardware - they have an interesting web site).
If not, you might draw out what you have connected and do a review here - with collective wisdom should be able to suss it out.
Post by: stellarkyle on August 01, 2018, 08:58:03 PM
Fuel pressure decay on a stationary rig can be more of a problem for some systems than others. The pressure returns quite rapidly during crank (some kits like the MS provide initial prime as you key up previous to cranking as well, not familiar on the Motronic's agenda). Hence a longer off period might result in more of a bleed down. Not sure if your 5th enrichment injector is able to drain down towards the inlet chambers for the flooding, but I'd be confirming all the injectors with a "power off/ pressure drip test" which you could co-ordinate with some hose/ clamps/ shop air pressure etc. A small amount of gas introduced into the hose prior to connection to the shop air at reg pressure (most systems run 43psi roughly - good enough for the test).
I unplugged the fifth injector and it didn't have any effect. Then I pulled the rail to do some tests on the injectors. I ran a leak test by unplugging all the electronic connectors and then pressurized the rail by hitting the starter button. None of the injectors leaked even after a couple minutes. I also took a video of the injectors firing. It looks like my injectors are putting out a lot of fuel compared to other videos of K100 injectors. I guess that shouldn't be surprising since it's running rich.
https://youtu.be/5Yy-GVy57iA
Could the Jetronic ECU be telling the injectors to stay wide open? Is the correct test for checking the signal from the EFI the one where you hook up a 12V LED at the electrical plug that goes to the injector?
Post by: johnny on August 01, 2018, 10:46:49 PM
stray coil voltage has torched a few bricks over the years...
thanks for sharing... now gimme a lucky strike... its toasted...
j o
Post by: Laitch on August 02, 2018, 07:14:50 AM
thanks for sharing... now gimme a lucky strike... its toasted...In case your cryptometer can't decipher this message, Kyle, it refers to this incident (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11273.msg98304.html#msg98304), among others.
Post by: stellarkyle on August 04, 2018, 09:48:55 AM
In case your cryptometer can't decipher this message, Kyle, it refers to this incident (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11273.msg98304.html#msg98304), among others.
Thank you for the translation; I was completely lost. Luckily my bike and I remain unburned.
Any other ideas? I'm tempted to buy another FI computer to see if that helps.
Post by: Arktasian on August 04, 2018, 03:24:20 PM
Strange things can happen in the electrical realm - time to reign things in and figure this out.
Post by: zenitramnaes on August 11, 2018, 09:44:45 PM
Post by: K_grendell on July 12, 2020, 10:20:38 PM
Post by: Arktasian on July 17, 2020, 06:14:54 PM
If you wish to chat with someone with a running Lufty turbo kit, PM me for a chat and a contact for a Dude on the Islands.
Hopefully someone else posts here, I hate being the last participant on a thread.
Post by: volador on July 17, 2020, 07:49:36 PM
Post by: Arktasian on July 18, 2020, 11:57:41 AM
Paging “Maui Cowie” to the front office.
Post by: stellarkyle on July 25, 2020, 11:41:25 AM
Have you had a chance to get this bike out and going? I hope so and would love to hear your thoughts. I’m waiting for my ihi to come back from being rebuilt and my new rs is arriving tomorrow to start assembling my lufty kit into it.
It's been apart for turbo and engine rebuild since February but it was running alright before then! Who'd you have rebuild your IHI? I'm eagerly watching your thread!
We haven't heard from Kyle for quite some time now (not that I'm a "stellar" poster and example of rapid project closure).
If you wish to chat with someone with a running Lufty turbo kit, PM me for a chat and a contact for a Dude on the Islands.
Hopefully someone else posts here, I hate being the last participant on a thread.
Yeah, I went dark there for a while. Busy working full time while finishing up undergrad!
I've been posting updates of my project on Instagram recently if anyone would like to follow: https://www.instagram.com/madcatmoto/ (https://www.instagram.com/madcatmoto/)
After I finish painting and rebuilding the engine, I'll post an update here for you guys.
Post by: stellarkyle on August 11, 2020, 06:21:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/H0YCADE.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/UBnMh6f.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/kgsRFYt.jpg)