Author Topic: new K1100 '95 in the workshop  (Read 3705 times)

Offline matjas

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new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« on: July 19, 2023, 01:01:41 PM »
Hello everyone,

Came back after maybe 4 year break and after having sold my previous brick I never thought I would ever go the same route again. With a couple of other bikes in the garage I really have stuff to sit on but there you go. Old and stupid  :laughing1:
The bike was imported into Poland from Germany: drove there by an internet tidetogether app with some total strangers and rode back 1200kms on wheels and no big problem on the way - maybe 'cept a slight overheating. What I am puzzled with is how far the temp needle is moving during normal ride - from almost half and a bit over half to almost immediate move to the right /2 o'clock/ when the fan comes on. NEVER goes to the red zone.

The bike is declared to be 35kkm on the odo with some TUV papers from the past years German MOTs - it shows annual mileage of less than 1000km p.a. - the bike in general looks clean. COULD have sat on the rims for some time as the tires /even though with deep thread/ are more than 10 years of age and wobble AF. Looking at various places in the bike I cannot really decide whether this is the real mileage, have I been cheated upon or what. More of it later. The bodywork and fairings, paint, screen, seat, wheels, discs - all look pristine.
It starts and runs and drives great, no ABS errors, breaks good also. Discs with no rims, pads great. It had more than 0.6l more oil in it but even when parked on the side stand it doesnt give a slightest whiff of smoke. Shifts nice, if I give it a moment before going into first gear the gear goes in silently. All gears up and down no problem. MAYBE slightly notchy when really heated up.
The only thing that does not work is the radio remote. Connected solid but no action there.

These are good things. BUT :D

Now I am in the process of looking here and there and doing what needs to be done to have the bike fully 'my way'. I will try to split it into points to have the discussion more organised.

1. there was WATER only in the cooling system  177381 and upon taking away the fairings it became also obvious the rad is partially blocked by dead insects, feathers and grass seeds. This could have taken maybe 1/4 of the flowthrough. Maybe - I dont remember my old 1100 ever switching the rad fan. Here it is enough to stop for 2 minutes maybe. On the + side the fan does the job just right.
The water in the system was misty but no oil - I would say there was a good amount of freely floating mineral deposits. The inlet into the rad has some whitish gunk on it and the sieve in the cap was partially blocked with limestone. I am in the process of decalcing the system with some Prestone rad cleaner. I will see what will come out when the bike is cold.

2. there are traces of silicone between the gbox and the engine - not factory affair I reckon - so gearbox could have been out - at this mileage this seems very strange;
3. the oil/water pump also has traces of solicone around it - no leaks though. question arises however HOW this has been put together. are all of the channels open to flow as needed as the mechanical inclination of the previous two owners gives me goosebumps;
4. there is VERY visible silicone layer behind the camshaft chain cover and obviously around the valve cover. there is a little weeping from the left bottom corner of the camshaft chain cover where it joins the valve cover - I need to get rid of this  :nono2:
5. there is also a slight oily wetting under the rear of the airbox - I THINK it is coming from the engine breather that seems to live in there. Possible?

Now - all of it was discovered when I changed the final drive, gearbox and engine oils... Question is - can I take off the front cover with the new oil in or will it start flowing through the front?
Really have something in me against draining and refilling what has been drained :(

The bike is slightly banking right when I let the handlebars loose - but as far as I remember this was also the case with my previous brick. No play in the rear drive affair to speak of.

Throttle bodies were far out, corrected already while the bike was mixing the rad cleaner coolant - but this will have to be done again when I have checked the valve clearances. Hope no big job in there.

 
On the good side of things - the fuel tank is not leaking. The previous one developed clutch, pump and fork leaks with subsequent clutch slip. As I had other bikes to ride I sold it for good money as it was really pristine otherwise.


Any ideas, hints are more than welcome :D and well :D welcome again :D seems like this one is going to stay little longer :D


  • Poland
  • K1100LT

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2023, 04:49:14 PM »
Okay, first the radiator.  If it were my bike I would finish your flushing, and then remove the radiator and soak it in a pan of white vinegar both inside and out.  That will dissolve any remaining mineral deposits inside and soften the dead insects caught in the fins.

Rinse well with clean water, and flush the insects/dirt, etc. from the back of the radiator to push it all out the front.  This will make a huge improvement in cooling.  When you refill, use distilled water and any long life coolant.  All modern coolants are compatible with aluminum alloy engines and radiators now so you don't need the ultra special BMW stuff.  I use either Prestone or Peak Long Life coolant in 60:40 water/coolant mix and change it every two years.

The silicone around the timing chain cover at the valve cover is probably to seal where three case parts come together with a less than perfect fit on some bikes.  If you don't use it, you will get a little seepage from the lower front corner of the valve cover.

That the engine and transmission have been separated is probably so the clutch splines could be lubed or the clutch o-ring replaced.  These are both jobs that I would expect to be needed on a bike as old as yours regardless of the k's on the clock.

As far as pulling to the right, I think they all do that, at least every one I had did it.

Last, spend some time doing a good flush on the brake system with fresh DOT 4.

Looks like you have a nice Brick.  Good luck and enjoy it.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2023, 04:55:44 PM »
Is draining the oil necessary to seal the front of the engine? Cam chain cover needs to be off.
  • Poland
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2023, 04:58:37 PM »
There might be a little oil left in the cover, but the bulk of the engine oil drains back to the sump which is below the timing chain cover.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2023, 04:59:49 AM »
thanks for the reply and sorry for the previous somehow unfinished post ended with 'YOU' - seems like not all has been posted from the phone. now corrected.

seems like you might be 100% right with the radiator out affair. I reverse cleaned it with compressed air, then thick engine cleaner and copious amounts of hot water, even vacuumed the remaining stuff - NO - you still cant see through the fins in most of the crossection. when I take it off I will do the pickly stuff with white common vinegar. Are you sure this will not damage the paint or the internals?

word of worry about the timing cover - want to check the timing chain - is there a way to do it? measure the stretch? how much the tensioner is out /in honda that is the way/? while there I want to have it all done.
need to take the wheels off to have the rubber replaced so I will jack up the front a bit more while the rear wheel is missing - I think this will move the oil level back a bit - well the cover drip is something I will have to live with. I think I will take the pump off as well and see how the sealing has been done. clean it all and reseal the whole thing.

this is my XXXX bike in my riding life and realy giving these old lumps a proper once over is a LOT of work! i just forget when buying - then the back hurts :D
  • Poland
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2023, 11:23:40 AM »
The vinegar won't hurt the radiator.  I have done overnight soaks with no bad effect.  You can mix the vinegar 1 part water to 1 part vinegar to make it more gentle. 

I don't think you need to be concerned about the timing chain.  They are good for at least 160,000km.  Wear in the chain is checked in the way the chain bends to the side.  I don't know how to describe the test, and can't remember what the limit is.  Something like 2cm at 8cm. 
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2023, 11:29:12 AM »
The soak goes on.
I need to take the cover off to reseal it anyway so at least I will have a look at the guides. This will give me some idea on the actual mileage I think.
I will post some pics.
  • Poland
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2023, 11:52:55 AM »
For reference, here is the BMW K1100 shop manual:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/shopmanuals/BMW_K1100_LT_RS_Repair_Manual.pdf

As TMG noted, there should be no need to worry about the timing chain at only 35K km.

When you take the engine covers off you'll want a drip pan underneath to catch the residual oil that drips out.

Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
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Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2023, 01:02:02 PM »
issue is if it is the 35 the German guy was quoting. looks like it bloody isnt.

I measured the clearances and it is a disaster in the making. I have no idea HOW on Earth this bike managed to get me back home and is still running...
Dimensions given in .mm in pairs from front of the engine to back L to R essentially, measured at the the first GO gauge:

INTAKE:
0.09 - 0.09 /this was VERY hard to press in/
0.09 - 0.09
0.09 - 0.09
0.09 - 0.09

EXHAUST:
0.15 - 0.15
0.13 - 0.13
0.15 - 0.15
0.15 - 0.15

ALL of the buckets are to be replaced I bet - still need to take them out and take reading.

I just wonder what will be the state of the head/seats, valves.
And have no hope for the timing elements.

I am really devastated.
  • Poland
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2023, 02:10:09 PM »
Have you done a compression check?  That will give a clue as to engine condition.  Did the bike run well when you rode it home? 

I find it odd that the clearances are so uniform across all the valves.  It's almost as if they were intentionally set for those clearances.  Double check the clearances and then remove the cams and measure the bucket sizes.  You may be able to shuffle them around to reduce the number you will ultimately need.

What do the footpeg plates look like?  Paint wear on them is a good indicator of the bike's usage.  What are the engine and frame numbers?  Do they match?  Could this be a replacement engine?

  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline matjas

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  • Posts: 87
Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2023, 02:38:51 PM »
The bike looks pristine. I mean for a 30odd years it looks really, really good.
Only gripe inside is the outside black insulation sleeves are delapidating in fingers. I think it has been exposed to some cleaning agent maybeÖ my previous brick didnít have that. Same age.

Footpegs are almost as new, no paint wear on the plates. Original paint. Great seat.
I mean this is not the first and not the 20th bike i dive into but I canít really make heads or tails out of it.
Donít want to take the plugs out before I am all done with the valves so that no carbon falls down onto the ex seats by any chance.
It starts and runs very, very well, the power is as you would expect - 140kmh cruising is just a walk, plenty of throttle left and one burst to 160 just went smooooth
AF. I just donít get it at all :( :idunno:

With this out of spec level the bike should really loose compression or be difficult to setup syncing the throttles. Nothing of these.

It is all mystery to me now. Hell!

Where to look for the engine number? And replacement or not - this is just plain impossible to explain in my head what I am experiencing.
  • Poland
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2023, 03:20:42 PM »
Another way to gauge the age of a K bike is to look at the white plastic above the tail light bulb. Due to the heat from the bulb, this darkens as a K ages. On a low mile bike it will show a little yellow discoloring. On a high mile bike it will be very dark, almost black, above the tail light bulb.

Here's an example from a low mile bike:


Some caveats:

If the lens has been replaced at some point in the bike's life then this does not apply.

This works on US bikes because the tail light is wired to always be on. On non-US bikes with the light switch then this doesn't yellow as quickly if the lights aren't always on while the bike is ridden.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
New to K bikes? Click here.
K Bike Maintenance & Mods: Click here.
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2023, 03:30:32 PM »
Engine serial number is at the right rear of the oil sump.

Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
New to K bikes? Click here.
K Bike Maintenance & Mods: Click here.
Buy parts here.

Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2023, 03:32:15 PM »
Found the engine number on the rh of the crankcase. It does not match the frame number. If this is the right thing to look at. But there is 95 stamped in the number if that stands for the year.
Still - I canít explain to myself these clearances in ANY WAY.
According to the book this is well beyond the limit - but as I say - the bike runs just close to perfect.
On the way economy was great varying on different stretches from 4.7 to 5.2l per 100kms

The EU bikes could run without lights before 2001 if I remember it correctly so this above will not apply.
  • Poland
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2023, 04:05:08 PM »
K bike engine numbers don't have anything to do with the VIN. Back in the old days BMW bikes did have matching frame and engine numbers but that does not apply to K bikes.

Are you sure that you measured the valves clearances correctly? Those numbers are way out of whack.

There's some links to IBMWR write-ups on this page:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/4valves/4valves.htm



Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
New to K bikes? Click here.
K Bike Maintenance & Mods: Click here.
Buy parts here.

Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2023, 04:08:15 PM »
I am beginning to think I could have used an imperial set of blades and read the wrong line number. Then - that would be the funniest mistake I have ever made but today I feel really beyond wasted to go to the workshop and wrap my head around it.
As you say - this just canít be true reading.
  • Poland
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2023, 04:11:14 PM »
The fuel economy you're getting is very good for a K11.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
New to K bikes? Click here.
K Bike Maintenance & Mods: Click here.
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2023, 05:11:39 PM »
If that .09 feeler was a tight fit, that would mean the gap could indeed be .008" which is nice and loose as is the .013" and .015" on the exhaust valves. 

That the valves are all nearly the same gap makes me think someone was fussy enough to set them that way(typical German).  I have to doubt that anyone who would go to that trouble would set them too tight.  That the bike ran well even when hot enough to run the fan is more evidence that the clearances are probably okay. 

I would suggest that you carefully check the clearance again.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline daveson

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2023, 05:47:21 PM »
Can you post some photos of your brick and the instrument cluster?
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current;'85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; 1500 Vulcan, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline matjas

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2023, 02:35:05 AM »
There you go.
  • Poland
  • K1100LT

Offline matjas

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  • Posts: 87
Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2023, 07:24:16 AM »
Seems like I made a terrible mistake with this measurement. I have been saying this is the last year without bifocals and that is a fact as I just feel embarassed.
Obviously I took the wrong gauges and in the fire of work I even didnt think they seemed a 'tad' too thick in the fingers.
The final verdict is all of the valves are on the loose side, up from the bottom limit, only ONE, right intake is a tight fit for the 0.15mm but it can be massaged in - if it were for exhaust I would do it now but this way I will leave it for the winter job when I will do the clutch splines and seals and pivot bearings.
The camchain and guides all look new without noticeable wear so this finally proves to me what I bought is what had been advertised. You may laugh but I do not have much trust in German vendors. Nationality thing maybe  :laughing4-giggles:

Now - while there I need to replace  this crankshaft seal as I have no idea whether this has been done or not. Is this in any way a generic seal or can this only be purchased at BMW? Cant be very expensive and I would not like to go back there in case the hall chamber develops a leak and stops the machine from running. I think this could be substituted with an ordinary simmering but will wait for your input.

The plugs as you see them were almost finger tight with the caps nearly impossible to remove so vulcanised to the stems. I think this could be a VERY old set of plugs - electrodes are well worn but these deposits are worrying me a bit. I never wait 30kkm with replacing plugs so maybe I havent seen much in my life in this respect. Propane test done while the bike was idling and there is no noticeable change in idle - I think all is tight in the vacuum intake side. MAYBE the middle injectors are not spraying as they should? BUT - as I said the economy has been great so far, the bike is pulling strong, idles great, fires right up. I have run 40l of fuel with preventative injector cleaner additive /STP is the brand over here/ and I think after the first tank the bike got a little better 'go' as it was a tad sluggish at the beginning. Maybe this is just old age of the plugs.

I will do compression test when all is together just to cap it all off and then fit a new set of plugs in.

All in all - given the partially poor aesthetics /rust pitting on the chrome suspension pipes between the triples for example/ the bike seems to be in good shape to cover much more kilometres in our mutual journey. I am beginning to think it was left dormant for a very long time and this is what is killing these bikes mostly.

Cant wait to put it all back together and ride some more while the summer is still here.


One question though - the manual says it differently but I found in the forum the procedure for syncing the throttle bodies and it says I should start with the FIRST air screw out by 1.5 turns and then adjust all of the other screws to #1. In some other place I saw an instruction to start with the screw #3 as this is where the bowden comes to. I managed to get a proper synch with the first method but which one is correct/better? Also the manual just says: get it all in line and that is it. I already know that without a proper reference point this will bring the idle to 1200rpm roughly.
Is the 1.5 turns out on the 1st screw the agreed upon method?

 

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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2023, 08:01:22 AM »
Regarding throttle balance.  I adjust the screw on the last throttle body, the one with the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator to 1 1/2 turns out from lightly bottomed.  Then I use my cheap home made balancer to match the other throttle bodies to that one.  I get excellent results and it only takes about 15 minutes to do the job.


* Throttle Body Balancer 003.JPG (55.15 kB . 768x576 - viewed 336 times)
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline matjas

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  • Posts: 87
Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2023, 08:03:29 AM »
I THINK the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator is only a K100 and 75 /maybe/ affair. No such thing on 1100 bricks AFAIK
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2023, 08:09:40 AM »
The spark plugs don't look all that bad.  I change mine every two years and some will have as much as 32,000km on them.  As far as the caps being stuck on the spark plugs, that seems to be typical of the caps.  I don't worry about it, since a tight cap keeps moisture out.

Crank seals can be had at any shop that sells industrial bearings and seals.  As long as you have the part number they can match it.  BMW's prices for seals and bearings are pretty close to what you pay at the industrial shop, the industrial place is just a little more convenient.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline frankenduck

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Re: new K1100 '95 in the workshop
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2023, 10:21:32 AM »
I THINK the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator is only a K100 and 75 /maybe/ affair. No such thing on 1100 bricks AFAIK

Correct. 4V Ks do not have a vac line to the fuel pressure regulator.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
New to K bikes? Click here.
K Bike Maintenance & Mods: Click here.
Buy parts here.

Tags: leaks overheating