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MOTOBRICK.COM => The MBdotCOM Community Center => Topic started by: Chaos on June 13, 2017, 01:00:27 PM
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Watching local news, 3 motorcycle fatalities yesterday. One at 2 am, failed to negotiate a turn. One 16 year old on a dirt bike on private property. One car turned left, did not see bike. None of them with helmets. Local station interviewed a vtwin focused speed shop owner who immediately stated "if you don't have loud pipes that's what happens, if they can't hear you they can't see you". I almost threw my shoe at the TV. Not particularly ATGATT myself, especially in hot weather, but have never assumed someone with AC, cellphone, Itunes and screaming kids is going to pay attention to anything outside their box. Anyway, be careful out there, kidney season is in full swing.
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Any time I hear the "hear you / see you" or "loud pipes save lives" excuses for being obnoxious self made spectacles, I ask, then why not put a crazy straw loop-d-loop in them and a nice bugle tip and point them out the front? Or maybe ambulances and firetrucks should all have their sirens pointing out the back from under the rear bumpers...
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While accidents can happen to anyone at any time, most crashes are single vehicle accidents caused by the riders inability to sucessfully negotiate a turn. More often than not by an inexperienced rider who doesn't have a valid motorcycle endorsement. Simply put, these are things that a muffler or lack thereof cannnot fix. My advice is to take an experienced rider course every few years if one is available in your area. They are a lot of fun and will definitely sharpen your skills.
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If that "loud" crap was actually true and proved with irrefutable facts, not a single bike would be made with a muffler.
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A harley rider saw this on my Ural and did not understand the sarcasm
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While accidents can happen to anyone at any time, most crashes are single vehicle accidents caused by the riders inability to sucessfully negotiate a turn.
Nope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_findings_in_the_Hurt_Report
"Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile."
More often than not by an inexperienced rider who doesn't have a valid motorcycle endorsement.
That would be more correct.
"In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide-out and fall due to overbraking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.
Motorcycle riders with previous recent traffic citations and accidents are overrepresented in the accident data.
The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents.More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience"
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I forget the figures, but I was amazed at the huge percentage of MC fatalities here in Ohio that had neither a MC endorsement nor a helmet.
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Here are some actual statistics and sobering numbers.. The motorcycle landscape has changed greatly over the last 50 years, the myths and urban legends have not.
1 in 4 fatal motorcycle crashes involve an unlicensed or non-endorsed operator.
2 in 5 single vehicle, fatal motorcycle crashes were alcohol-impared
26 to 1 - motorcyclist fatalities vs. passenger vehicle occupant fatalities (per miles traveled)
Motorcycle accidents and fatalities are becoming less frequent by percentage of the growing number of motorcycles. The data proves that a properly licenced / endorsed, sober, motorcyclist, wearing a helmet, and obeying the speed limit, traffic laws and controls has the lowest percentage of both injuries and fatalities.
It is a great read and I encourage giving it a glance.
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812148 (https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812148)
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The Hurt Report is 41 years old. As BrickMW says, "changed greatly".
Just last week I had to go to the fog line as a herd of pirates turned in too early and crossed the centerline at apex. This was a simple mid-speed curve with open sightlines. Happens daily.
All riders need to know David L. Hough's body of work.
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Nope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_findings_in_the_Hurt_Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_findings_in_the_Hurt_Report)
"Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile."
That would be more correct.
"In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide-out and fall due to overbraking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.
Motorcycle riders with previous recent traffic citations and accidents are overrepresented in the accident data.
The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents.More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience"
Thanks JPaganel, I stand corrected and do not wish to spread misinformation regarding such a complicated and important topic to us riders. While more up to date research would be greatly welcomed, the Hurt Report you reference which studied motorcycle accidents and related data taking place in the city of Los Angeles, CA from 1976-77 is still surprisingly among the best we have to look to on this subject.
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Lol. I see what you did there.
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Dave Hough spoke at our Iowa riders safety forum this spring and the topic was discussed of re-evaluating the Hurt report. Smaller spot surveys over the years have not shown enough difference in results to justify a complete full blown repeat of the Hurt study. So it still stands.
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"if you don't have loud pipes that's what happens, if they can't hear you they can't see you".
I'm willing to bet not one accident report in this entire country has this on it:
"Cause of accident: Exhaust pipes not loud enough."
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:clap:
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It takes a lot of hard work, dedication, and intellect to go into the medical profession, but it's so much easier to simply remove the mufflers and catalytic converter from your motorcycle and drive around annoying the hell out of people in order to save lives.
If only life were that simple.
:dunno2: :neener: :hehehe
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All of the people I know with loud pipes who have reversed the output angle of the exhaust so that the volume points forward such that oncoming traffic can hear it have reported that their pipes have definitely saved their lives on at least one occasion.
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Them Harley guys are kinda fragile.
Last week I got a literal death threat from this Internet tough guy because I said that a. loud bikes are loud because people make them that way on purpose and b. "loud pipes save lives" is bunk.
He called me a snob, an a-hole that ruins it for everybody, a c-sucker, and then said he'd like to teach me a lesson with his AR-15.
All over some fart noises he likes to make...
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Dude -- I'd call the FBI. Free speech is one thing but this is the post-Vegas world we live in now.
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Them Harley guys are kinda fragile.
Last week I got a literal death threat from this Internet tough guy because I said that a. loud bikes are loud because people make them that way on purpose and b. "loud pipes save lives" is bunk.
He called me a snob, an a-hole that ruins it for everybody, a c-sucker, and then said he'd like to teach me a lesson with his AR-15.
All over some fart noises he likes to make...
Does he ride a Sportster? I mean that's a girls bike.
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Does he ride a Sportster? I mean that's a girls bike.
Heard the same said about my K75 from my K100-1100 friends. But I know some big dudes who ride scooters. And I agree the pirate crowd is sensitive, comes from having to trailer their bike everywhere.
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Heard the same said about my K75 from my K100-1100 friends. But I know some big dudes who ride scooters. And I agree the pirate crowd is sensitive, comes from having to trailer their bike everywhere.
The "Girl's Bike" phrase really upsets some Harley riders. I think a really emotionally fragile people get offended. Ride what you like or what your budget allows.
I've never heard my K75S is a "girl's bike." I wish someone would say that around my wife, maybe she'd try to ride it. :bmwsmile
It's a little heavier for her but I remind her it weighed about a hundred pounds less than the Sportster she owned and rode maybe 5 times. I rode it more. I changed the forward foot controls to mid's and suspension was rough for city riding. I elected not to sink money into it since she wanted to sell it. The peanut tank guarantees a stop at a gas station any time you ride it.
She seems to be interested in a G310R. I rode a demo and it's extremely light and feels like I'd riding a tiny clown bike. Seems nice for a general commuter around town. I think the 310 is a nice beginners bike or "girls bike." Riding it at 50mph feels like riding the k75 at 90.
Back to loud pipes. I need to see the data behind it rather that hear the phrase. I suspect their is no data. The flat earth theory has more data than the "Loud pipes save lives" theory.
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"K75 is fine...for a girl's bike"
"Nothing wrong with a K75 that another cylinder won't fix"
"Dude I think something fell off your K75 a few seconds ago..looks like...the missing cylinder!"
I say "Wow, that's original! Almost as original as 'So funny I forgot to laugh'".
Funny how 'loud pipes save lives' most often comes out of an oversized orifice in a head with no helmet on it.
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I Queensland it seems Hardleys are under different laws to the rest of the motorcycling world. They can produce as much noise as they want, whereas I would definitely be booked if I produced even half the decibels they produce. :dunno I've heard unsubstantiated stories that a deal was made. :dunno
Regards Martin.
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I've heard that the definition of a Hardley Ferguson is "a machine that converts gasoline into noise".
Yesterday, I had the misfortune to spend about 10 minutes in line at a toll booth directly behind a pirate and his bitch. Every time the line moved forward one car length I was treated to a 130+db life-saving blast from his safety equipment.
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Gryph QLD got rid of the last manned toll in 2009 all electronically done with number plate recognition, if you don't have a transponder. You will get a present in the mail if you don't ring and pay. Two local shopping centres also have number plate recognition first three hours parking is free, but after that you have to pay unless you are going to the flicks and then they give you another hour free. Motorcycles are exempt from paying at the shopping centre as the system shoots your front plate which is non existent on motorcycles. Road side mobile police radar traps also shoot the front of your vehicle. The new unmanned camera trailers shoot the rear unfortunately.
Regards Martin.
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When it was my turn at the toll booth and I was fumbling through my jacket I asked the collector why my EZ Pass wasn't used on the Mackinac Bridge when it is used nearly everywhere else. He replied that the union won't let the bridge authority use EZ Pass because it would eliminate jobs.
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I try to avoid toll roads, at one stage they were charging motorcycles the same price as cars. We seem to be getting more and more of them, the price of progress. :musicboohoo: I've been stuck inside for two days with the rain, now suffering withdrawal. Might have to go play in the rain, and sit under a soggy palm tree.
Regards Martin
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At least you are looking at the onset of summer albeit a soggy season. I'm looking at the prospect of snow up to my arse in 4-6 weeks when the weather gets cold enough for our lake effect snow storms.
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When it was my turn at the toll booth and I was fumbling through my jacket I asked the collector why my EZ Pass wasn't used on the Mackinac Bridge when it is used nearly everywhere else. He replied that the union won't let the bridge authority use EZ Pass because it would eliminate jobs.
Same reasoning why I don't/won't use the "self check" lanes at a store. Don't want to be an 'enabler' to eliminating jobs, even as low paying as they may be, they are still a job for someone.
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Scott, you are fortunate to live in a state where there are few if any tolls to pay. I go across two toll bridges every day on my commute to work. My EZ Pass enables me to pay a commuter rate as well as saving as much as 2 hours a week waiting in line at the booths.
I am just as interested as the next guy in protecting jobs, but $500 a year and over 100 hours waiting in line is more than I'm willing to pay. Especially since the tolls were supposed to be eliminated when the bridges were paid for 60 years ago.
I'm sure you would feel different if you had to pay tolls when riding a bike. It's not as easy as when you're in a car.
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Before they eliminated the toll booths, I used to carry money in a 35mm film canister wrapped with Velcro. I had Velcro on the dash pad which it stuck to. When I hit the booth I would just give them the canister they would take out the money and put the change back, save a lot of time and fumbling with gloves and change. I always got the correct change and never got short changed. I used to have a pen and note book Velcroed to the dash pad which I needed at the time for work.
Regards Martin.
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Gryph QLD got rid of the last manned toll in 2009 all electronically done with number plate recognition, if you don't have a transponder. You will get a present in the mail if you don't ring and pay. Two local shopping centres also have number plate recognition first three hours parking is free, but after that you have to pay unless you are going to the flicks and then they give you another hour free. Motorcycles are exempt from paying at the shopping centre as the system shoots your front plate which is non existent on motorcycles. Road side mobile police radar traps also shoot the front of your vehicle. The new unmanned camera trailers shoot the rear unfortunately.
Regards Martin.
How scary is that? Here in 'Murcuh I don't think that would survive a legal challenge, at least not in the private parking domain.
So where are you supposed to stick your MC transponder that noone will steal it?
BTW we don't have front plates in 'Murcuh - they did away with them decades ago.
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TMG, tolls are just another form of a tax. We can't avoid them. I have yet to see a "tax" discontinued after it's intended purpose was satisfied. The government always seems to find another purpose for the income. Around here, they have been talking about highway tolls to pay for new road repairs----that's what I thought our current road use taxes were for--- what was I thinking, silly me :hehehe.
Yes, your tolls probably did pay for your bridges, and they are also supposed to pay for upgrades and replacements, and the salaries of the toll booth staff........ so if they reduce toll staff to only a self pay system, do you really think they will reduce the $ you pay, oh heck no.... I do agree with you though, if it is going to be a 'requirement' to pay no matter what, then yea, make it as easy as possible. They wouldn't have to have all booths manned. I have ridden out there. Visited a friend in Manhattan then we went to New Hampshire and yes the toll booths were a pain.
Unions have a place, but they are like the government, they got to greedy for their own good and have contributed to their own downfall and demise.
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I have my EZ Pass transponder mounted to the inside of the rear cowl cover. Out of sight and out of the weather. Works great with the plastic seat pans, but not sure if it would work there with an early model steel seat pan.
We all know that the purpose of the government bureaucrats is take every nickel we have. The least they can do is make it as painless as possible. As far as the toll collectors. They can be reassigned to doing the road repairs that the tolls are allegedly being collected to fund.
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We have the ETR407 (Electronic Toll Road) in Toronto. Motorcycle's license plate is administratively tied to the automobile's transponder in the system. So, when you drive through the gate (which is a large metal arch structure), video cameras record the license plate. That image is matched to the record in the system and the trip is logged. That avoids carrying around a transponder and also avoids the video charge. If you don't have an automobile to tie in the motorcycle license plate, then you have to pay the video charge.
Scandinavia had the best. Motorcycles didn't pay tolls, they got to park anywhere in the city for free, and got to use HOV lanes as well as lane share. Heaven.
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We have the ETR407 (Electronic Toll Road) in Toronto. Motorcycle's license plate is administratively tied to the automobile's transponder in the system. So, when you drive through the gate (which is a large metal arch structure), video cameras record the license plate. That image is matched to the record in the system and the trip is logged. .
Next stop—soma dispensers activated by smartphone. :giggles
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The no helmet thing is so weird to me, even on bicycles. It doesn't even have to be a full face helmet (you don't _really_ need your jaw or nose, it can sometimes be fixed too), a 3/4 is probably alright, it's certainly better than nothing.
There are tons of fatalities that literally occur at 0 MPH. Even more if you add in low speed. Falls in parking lots, at traffic lights. I've reviewed organ donation cases from 0 MPH helmetless motorcycle accidents. Simply put, a 5 foot unbroken fall with head impact on a hard surface can very easily be fatal, even in the absence of any predisposing conditions. The onset of problems afterwards can be insidious too, as a hematoma takes some time to form and press on the brain.
If you are wearing a helmet, 5 foot falls really don't cause death or serious head injury.
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In QLD police cars are slowly being fitted with number plate recognition cameras hooked to in car computers. The police can check to see if the car is registered, insured and the driver is not wanted on warrants. We no longer have to have registration stickers as in car computers can do a check. When I was working I used to work with a lot of police, and while talking about the in car computers he asked for my rego number of my car. I gave him the Bricks number instead, in less than a minute he gave me all the Bricks information. Model, colour, year and registration expiration date, as well as my address and driving history.
Regards Martin.
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Simply put, a 5 foot unbroken fall with head impact on a hard surface can very easily be fatal, even in the absence of any predisposing conditions.....
If you are wearing a helmet, 5 foot falls really don't cause death or serious head injury.
I can vouch for that. A while back I parked my K against the left wall in my crowded garage. As I tried to dismount awkwardly on the right, my leg got stuck on a package I had bungied on the seat. I somehow rotated around and fell straight backwards towards the concrete floor. I remember thinking "this is going to hurt" then my head hit hard........and bounced painlessly up. Still had my helmet on. Knew a girl while in CA on the back of a stopped bike that got gently rear ended, she fell off on her head and died 2 day later of a brain hemorrhage. Very wary of being on bikes without a helmet.
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I remember thinking "this is going to hurt" then my head hit hard........and bounced painlessly up. Still had my helmet on.
I hope you replace that helmet afterwards......
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We get hammered with high taxes on gasoline in Canada. And, like politicians and bureaucrats worldwide, our trusted elected officials tend to dip into the gas tax pot for all sorts of things other than road repair. Back in the '60s, Ontario's highways were apparently the finest in North America. Today, not so much. Ask anyone who drives the 400 series roads or the QEW. The 401 is the busiest highway in North America, so they say. It is pounded 24 hours a day and exists in a pretty tough climate. And it is a rough ride...constantly under construction. And the 407 toll highway RBM mentioned? It was built by Ontario taxpayers to relieve Toronto area congestion. Then the bastards in our provincial capital decided government shouldn't be in the toll highway business so they sold the road for a song to some pretty happy pricks in Spain!! Now it's one of the most expensive toll roads in the world, or in the top 3. You can't make this shit up!! Did someone say RANT???!!
At the end of the day, gentlemen, I can't really complain about a damn thing. I feel so lucky just to be able to ride my 2-wheeled girlfriends wherever I want, whenever I want. There is always gasoline to buy and I can find any parts I need. Or even decide if I want to get yet another girlfriend. All in all, a pretty damn fortunate bunch we are...don't you think?
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Kris, I just did a loop of Huron and Superior and have to say that routes 69 and 17 were absolutely fantastic. !7 was a ribbon of silky smooth asphalt all the way from Sudbury to the border at Grand Portage, MN. 69 was a bit funky in spots, but still better than 95% of the roads in the Bolshevik paradise of New York. And the 401 and 403 from Sarnia to Burlington were pretty good as well. You guys are still getting better roads than New Yorkers for your road taxes.
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At the end of the day, gentlemen, I can't really complain about a damn thing. I feel so lucky just to be able to ride my 2-wheeled girlfriends wherever I want, whenever I want. There is always gasoline to buy and I can find any parts I need. Or even decide if I want to get yet another girlfriend. All in all, a pretty damn fortunate bunch we are...don't you think?
I could not agree more, my glass is half-full.
The prices for BMW parts is over-the-top in some cases and only just expensive in others but I can get them and keep my favorite motorcycles on the road and travel pretty much where I want without a concern for gas availability. Add the great BMW riding community that supports older bikes and life is good. :2thumbup:
[/size][size=78%]Ride on. [/size] :curvy-road
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I've heard that the definition of a Hardley Ferguson is "a machine that converts gasoline into noise".
Converts gasoline into noise without the pesky side effect of performance or horsepower.
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Gryph, I missed your post. No moss growing on you! What kind of miles did you rack up on that trip? Glad to hear the tarmac was good to you. It must have been a beautiful trip. Was that during the hot weather? Superior and Huron are gorgeous bodies of water. Hope you did some swimming along the way. We are very lucky to have the Great Lakes in our backyards.