K75 flooded, electrical issues and so on.

[StoyanMitev]

Hey dear people,

First post here but life is life. Long time reader.

I am proud owner of k75 89 bike that has gone through some modifications.

Long story short. Bought the bike few months ago, considering the documents it was not ridden for few years.

So after: new pump, filter, ventilator, oil, coolant, plugs, the bike was running pretty much ok.

it had a bad idle at cold, but no issues after few minutes. I have ridden only yamahas before that so the clutch thing was new to me.

Currently the bike is modified with new seat, led blinkers, led headlight and everything else "cafe"

My serious problems started when i tried removing the original speedo and replaced it with Axel Joost brotbox remover and Some tacho from louis.de. If the model matter i will post it later.

first thing i did wrong was i used 1990+ electrical scheme for wiring everything and went crazy over the weekend why it is not working, after some thought checked my documents again and found out that is actually 1989.... it was wrongly written on my small driving document.

after replacing all the burned fuses and connecting it "properly to 1989 scheme, problems started to get serious.

the bike was starting, after charging few times the battery after the crazy schematics error.

Managed to use it next day but got home in pretty heavy rain so everything was soaked.

Issue 1: for the past weeks i knew that i have a battery drainer that i need to find if the bike is left for few days.  it is not the battery - its new. it was not the new speedo, while it was before the installation. And i believe its not the alternator, while after ride i believe the battery was charged again.

Issue 2: I knew that the new fan was working, while after installation and 10 minutes running the bike it started. But i haven't heard it since then and temperatures were 35+ degrees in city driving. got me thinking and it was on my list for checks and repairs.

Issued 3: During the heavy rain bike did not have enough power to rev up like and old smoker. next day the bike did not want to start and it was flooded....petrol and black smoke was coming out of the exhaust. after reading about that issues, which was new to me.

- cleaned the spark plugs removed fuse 6 and managed to start the bike while keeping the throttle open so it can blow everything that was inside. Kept it running while the exhaust cleaned the smoke and liquids. (Sorry Greta) it was considerably hot and did not hear the fan comming on. Probably because of the fuse, but decided to get new temperature relay anyway. Connection to the relay was clean and not corroded.
- the bike can not start with the fuse in.

few days later charged the battery again and tried to start it, but no luck. Not even with the fuse out. The plugs were damped again, I have cleaned them and torched them a little bit with a blow torch.

First i thought that i have a missing connection from the old speedo, that caused my non starting problem. I did not had connection for the warning light of the temp sensor. After some thought this is the only warning light that i connected to the warning light of the new speedo.

Now i think that i have burned some relays (if that is possible) or melted the starter relay after so many attempts, but the bike was starting with the fuse out few days ago, so i believe it should not be the starter relay.

Checked the vent hose today and found out that is in a pretty bad shape and it has some strange white porn like thing on the inside.

My plan now is:

change the oil
clean or change the plugs again
change temp sensor and coolant
change the z hose
I am gonna change the tank with another one that i fixed and painted so this will fix the issue if i have water in the fuel after the rain....which i think it is not the case except if that was the reason for the rpm issues in the rain.

Do better job on the speedo cables under the tank. I think now that this is not the issue.

if somebody think the main issues is connecting cables to the different schematic i generally know what and where i have connected while i have my first notes.

BUT neutral light, starting without clutch, blinker lights and  blinkers, high beam, tacho and speedo are working.

I believe axel joost k box remover should allow alternator to run from low rpms but i checked and it was still charing after reving up a little bit. I can't check it now, while i can't start the bike. But i believe the alternator not working should not be the reason for not starting the bike.

Sorry for the chaotic post, but I tried do write everything that I remember.

I will be really thankful of any tips to start the bike as soon as possible, while it was my daily driver until know....


speedo:
https://www.louis.eu/en/t-t-multifunction-instrument-10034806
Speedo installation
https://cdn1.louis.de/content/catalogue/articles/zusatz/anl/T&T_english.pdf

axel joost k brotbox remover:
https://www.elektronikbox.de/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=57&language=en
https://elektronikbox.de/downloads/Manual_bda2_en.pdf


pre 1990 wiring diagram
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4923.0
1990 - on wiring diagram:
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=4926.0

I know for sure that " to generator" cable of axel joost currently is connected to "sky blue' wire which in my case is only blue not sky, but it is the only blue cable that i have.

Axel joost "starter relay"  is connected to the Green/ Black wire that went to the old speedo.  !!! this is something that i believe i need to fix..... could not talk to tech support due to their vacation. I dont know if it should be connected to the starter relay somehow directly or the connection i did it is okey, while the bike was started, neutral no clutch is working and so on...

due to the schematics i know for sure that i did wrong connections to the lima and the load shed relay.

I have future winter plans to simplify it with m - unit and if i cant get it going soon i will probably start collecting everything i need sooner....

Thank you in advance for any tips and sorry again for the chaotic post..

I am eagerly waiting to fix my brick... only for few months started loving it.....

[StoyanMitev]

PS.  I know for sure that my fuel level sensor is not working. Can this be a cause for an issue, while it is connected somehow to temperature sensing switch and currently i have few liters in the tank and no bulb for it.

[StoyanMitev]

Follow up: managed to check the starter relay, horn, load shed and fuel inject and they all seem to work properly.

[Laitch]

Charge the battery, Stoyan, then check the fuel pressure entering the fuel rail by cranking the starter. If the Hall sensors are working, that should start the fuel pump and its delivery pressure will be recorded.

[StoyanMitev]

follow up....

things are getting worse and worse...

 - So managed to change the temp sensor(not original) and coolant

 - Rewired the speedo and cleaned all the cables. everything is working fine. except that i have low light on the tail light when i turn the switched on.
At least now brake lights and tail light are working properly.,
I am using old grounds for the axel joost and the new speedo. They worked good did not want to put extra cables ....the bike already has enough.
Also took switched 12v from green black pin 6 to connect the. axel joost and after switch speeedo.

Can electrical connection of left behind wire be the issue of no start? For example load shed relay or bmu? As I said in the first post i have wired the speedo to 1990 on wiring diagram and burned a lot of fuses. Maybe I am missing something....


- Taped and cleaned the Z hose, while i am waiting for the new one.

- cleaned the injectors, and checked them with my cheap multimeter, but they seem to give same resistance.

- checked also checked the starter relay, horn, load shed and fuel inject and they all seem to work properly. - opening closing and giving resitance.

- cleaned the plugs many times. degrease. brush. heat to dry

- checked the fuel presure. exactly 36 psi

- changed the fuel filter (because i was changing the tank anyway and i did not know the condition of the old filter)

- Checked the computer connection which seem pretty clean.

- Changed the OIL which was the worst thing i have seen. And i have seen a lot of oil. After changing oil the plugs are staying clean.

- Changed tank fuel lines.

Tried to start thew bike 2-3  times with all fuses(all checked), it is still flooding did not keep it for long

Trying to start the bike without the fuse for the pump is giving me few blows on the back and thats it. At least few days ago i was able to start it like this, but hard!

I am trying to start it with cables to the car. While trying to start it more than 5 times it is killing the bike battery and I am beat carrying it home. I still think that it should last longer. It is few month old gel battery specced to the bike.

Everything I do is currently on the boulevard in front of my house. Dont have a garage and dont wont to spend extra to put it in a friend open space 20 km from home.....

SO IT IS NO FUN ANYMORE.

I am open to any suggestion......

I saw somewhere that it can be start with 10 ml of cleane oil in the spark plug hole. Should i try that.... or it wont fix my problems.

[StoyanMitev]

forgot to say that the bike has 70 k km on the clock it was giving some blows while riding, but found out that the original exhaust has crack on the weld not so big and it was giving them also when accelerating and decelerating. It was doing it also with after market exhaust. I dont believe this is the NO start issue, while the bike was running 1 week ago.

the air filter is old but not in bad condition.

[Laitch]

I saw somewhere that it can be start with 10 ml of cleane oil in the spark plug hole. Should i try that.... or it wont fix my problems.I believe axel joost k box remover should allow alternator to run from low rpms but i checked and it was still charing after reving up a little bit. I can't check it now, while i can't start the bike. But i believe the alternator not working should not be the reason for not starting the bike.

That treatment is for engines that have been idle for months. The piston rings sometimes stick and the piston loses compression ability. The oil loosens the rings and compression rises. It won't hurt to try it but you indicated that the engine had been running until you installed the Joost "lunch box" remover.

The alternator charges the battery when the engine revs are ≈1000 rpm and above. Are you indicating that the alternator light in the instrument cluster is not shutting off when the engine was running at that rev rate?

The components on the 1989 and the 1990 drawings are wired exactly the same. All the various colored wires on each drawing attach to the same places elsewhere on the drawing. The difference is the 1989 drawing has the number of each terminal on its relay drawings so the correct colored wire can be attached to its corresponding number stamped on the relay, but the 1990 drawing has the relay drawing reversed so if you wire it according to the drawing you get a failure if you don't know which terminals are on the left, which are on the right, what numbers they are and which function the wires themselves have. Relay terminals are numbered so it's important to learn what those numbers mean when it comes to which wires attach to them.

Every time the the bike battery is deeply discharged, it is weakened; eventually it won't hold a charge at all so it will need to be replaced. Bike batteries cannot usually tolerate more than a few deep discharges. Ideally, you should have a battery that you dedicate only to cranking the engine for test purposes, and charge it after each testing.

Test the coolant temperature sensor resistance. There is data and instructions for that in Bert Vogel's K-Bike flow chart and troubleshooting guide at a link printed at the bottom of this post.



 

[StoyanMitev]

Actually i rode the bike one day after i installed it.
It was running bad, dying and kept it on choke for 5 km.
Came home in heavy rain. Everything and everywhere was soaked. Bike was without front mudguard. Now it has it. I think connecting the Gauge is not the issue anymore, but something that was slowly cooking and finished by the rain.

As i wrote in the previous post yesterday i changed the temp sensor.

I will go through Bart instructions and check the „comp“ under the tank and the fuel controller comp.

Thanks for the reply.

[Laitch]

Actually i rode the bike one day after i installed it.
It was running bad, dying and kept it on choke for 5 km.
As i wrote in the previous post yesterday i changed the temp sensor. 

Although it was running badly, it was running, so the oil-in-the-cylinders technique is unnecessary.
The reason I mentioned the temp sensor was several members here have ordered and received incorrect sensor, especially from certain Chinese vendors. The 2-valve Brick and 4-valve Brick sensors look similar but operate differently. Substituting one for the other will cause engine performance problems. That's why you should check its resistance values against the one in Bert's guide.

[StoyanMitev]

Just tested the old temp sensor.

Readings are at 22 degrees 4026 ohms.

The question now is if the new one has the correct resistance curve.

[StoyanMitev]

Tested the coils

9930 ohms - 1.0 ohm
9720 ohms - 1.0 ohm
1016 ohms - 1.0 ohm

Injectors give 16.2 ohm each

Tested also the temperature sensor that its on the bike

External temp: 21 c

With key off pin10 grounded to the battery gives 2316 ohms
While starting the bike around 2900-3000 hard to get correct measure with two hands on the multimeter and foot on the start…..

But anyway this reading seem to be NOT Ok.

I will order the original temperature sensor.

I will do the rest of the test from Berts instructions tomorrow, to see if something interesting comes out.