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Author Topic: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build  (Read 56176 times)

Offline toddlmr

  • ^ Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2016, 08:25:30 PM »
Thanks gripon and rbm. As I was putting it together I figured out most of it.
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2016, 08:28:46 PM »
Got more done!


I pulled it outside and cranked on it for awhile and it did not start. I pulled the plugs and they are wet. I read a little bit and was frustrated. I took the negative battery cable off for 10 mins to "reset the ecm". It didn't help. I started reading some threads. Guess I need to start troubleshooting.
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline rbm

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2016, 09:34:35 PM »
Taking the battery cable off will do nothing on a K100 to reset the ECU; there's no computer.  The 85 K100 uses Jetronic which is an analogue EFI system.  Since you have wet plugs, it indicates fueling is OK. It's turning over I guess so the starter circuitry is OK. Might not be getting spark.  Your next area to investigate would be the cold start circuit.

The control unit (ECU) takes sensor information:
- AFM flow and temperature
- Engine RPM (from hall sensors)
- Warm up information (from coolant temperature sensor)
- Throttle mode (idle and WOT switches)

So, you should double check those systems.  ICU, hall sensors, engine temperature sensor, TPS, AFM, coils and associated wiring.  Coils won't work if the ICU doesn't give them the signal and the ICU won't give the signal if it can't detect the engine turning and the hall sensors tell the ICU that the engine is turning.  Fuel enrichment won't work if the temperature probe doesn't send the right resistance.

Use Bert's troubleshooting page to lead you to the failing component.
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  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline toddlmr

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2016, 09:36:57 PM »
Thanks for the response. I got a shock off the plug while cranking over the motor. I'll check the link provided.
Thanks again!
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline rbm

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2016, 09:41:33 PM »
If you're getting spark, then the hall sensors, ICU, coils and associated wiring are OK.  Have you confirmed that the correct coil wire is attached to the correct plug?

If that looks good, might be the temperature sensor or associated wiring.

Have you checked fuses?  Sometimes fuses look OK visual but are open internally.  Use a multimeter on resistance setting to measure conductivity.
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  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline toddlmr

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2016, 09:43:27 PM »
I visualized fused. Tomorrow I check resistance. Great points! Thanks for keeping it simple!
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline Elipten

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2016, 10:46:03 PM »
Those original German fuses are crap.  Check them
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  • San Antonio, TX
  • 1990 K75RT

Offline jakgieger

  • itinerant farmer
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  • Posts: 618
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2016, 10:51:51 PM »
Just because you think nobody is watching doesn't mean that nobody is :dunno2: :bmwsmile, that is a very nice (fast) red...
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  • Kansas USA
  • 1989 K100rs se
"What we've got here is failure, to communicate.  Some men, you just cain't reach.  So you get what we had here last week.  Which is the way he wants it...Well, he gets it.  I don't like it any more than you men do."

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2016, 10:53:59 PM »
It'll be a  lot faster when I get it running! Thanks for the compliment. The Speedometer is coming back from Overseas Speedometers tomorrow. I am gonna drive out to his shop and
pick it  up.
Todd
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline jakgieger

  • itinerant farmer
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  • Posts: 618
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2016, 11:11:43 PM »
Follow Bert's guide and be patient.  Walk away for a little bit :bmwsmile.  Could be an injector problem.  Are you smelling gas out the pipe when you crank?  My bike had set for years (15+).  I replaced the injectors(as well as the rest of the fuel system).  The injectors can also be cleaned.  When I finally got mine started it seemed like I had to crank forever and then boom and a cloud of smoke.  I didn't let it die for 20 minutes, just a good fast idle.  After that it has run perfectly.
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  • Kansas USA
  • 1989 K100rs se
"What we've got here is failure, to communicate.  Some men, you just cain't reach.  So you get what we had here last week.  Which is the way he wants it...Well, he gets it.  I don't like it any more than you men do."

Offline Martin

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2016, 11:17:02 PM »
It could also be temperature sensor connection or temperature switch. It can cause flooding.
Regards Martin.
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  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2016, 09:31:00 AM »
Todd, I think you mentioned at the beginning of this thread that the engine did run, but not properly due to the timing being 30 degrees off.  Have you readjusted the Hall sensor plate?  Did you remove all the plugs and change them?  The fact that you said you got a shock off of a plug tells me you have spark voltage at the plugs.  Do you have a timing light that you can hook up?

I would suggest that you go back to the Hall sensors and double check the timing there.  Do a search on ignition timing here for some information on getting it set properly.

I would also strongly suggest that you double check the plug wires to be sure they are on the right plugs.  There was another brick here recently that had two of the wires on the wrong plug. 

Do you have the terminal nuts on your plugs or just the threaded stud?  The BMW plug wires need a terminal nut on the plug to make a good connection. 

When you were working on the bike did you disconnect or remove any electrical parts like coils, sensors, etc.? 

You mention the speedometer in your last post.  Do you have the instrument cluster connected?  I'm not sure, but that may have some effect on the running of the engine.
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2016, 09:39:05 AM »
Thanks Gripon for response! As far as timing, that wasn't me, I have not touched the timing. It was running but I had to keep on the throttle because it didn't want to idle. Also, I had to keep the choke closed about halfway. I did find a leaky fuel line (replaced) and the vaccum line at the end of fuel rail was cracked (replaced). I did not disconnect anything electrical while working on it. Yes, the instrument cluster is off (hopefully back and on today). I will go get new plugs today. (it has bosch in it now). The plugs have the resistor on them. Thanks for the awesome suggestions!!!!!!
Quote from: The Mighty Gryphon on January 16, 2016, 09:31:00 AM
Todd, I think you mentioned at the beginning of this thread that the engine did run, but not properly due to the timing being 30 degrees off.  Have you readjusted the Hall sensor plate?  Did you remove all the plugs and change them?  The fact that you said you got a shock off of a plug tells me you have spark voltage at the plugs.

I would suggest that you go back to the Hall sensors and double check the timing there.  Do a search on ignition timing here for some information on getting it set properly.

I would also strongly suggest that you double check the plug wires to be sure they are on the right plugs.  There was another brick here recently that had two of the wires on the wrong plug. 

Do you have the terminal nuts on your plugs or just the threaded stud?  The BMW plug wires need a terminal nut on the plug to make a good connection. 

When you were working on the bike did you disconnect or remove any electrical parts like coils, sensors, etc.? 

You mention the speedometer in your last post.  Do you have the instrument cluster connected?  I'm not sure, but that may have some effect on the running of the engine.
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
When I checked my spark plugs, I pulled the plug, inserted in the boot, held with insulated needle  nose against frame and had the wife hit the starter button. Isn't weird that I got a shock? Nothing was wet?
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline Laitch

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2016, 09:47:06 AM »
Quote from: toddlmr on January 16, 2016, 09:41:16 AM
Nothing was wet?
Does that questionmean that after turning over the engine then removing the plug, the plug electrode was dry?
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2016, 09:48:14 AM »
Quote from: Laitch on January 16, 2016, 09:47:06 AM
Quote from: toddlmr on January 16, 2016, 09:41:16 AM
Nothing was wet?
Does that questionmean that after turning over the engine then removing the plug, the plug electrode was dry?
No that means I wasnt standing in water and  the pliers weren't wet.
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2016, 09:59:45 AM »
Todd, with 13,000 volts coming from the coils, you don't need to be wet to get bit.  The fact that you got shocked means you have spark.  That the engine doesn't start tells me that it is not at the right time, or that the mixture isn't right. 

Were you touching the plug to a bare metal spot on the frame?  Do you have a jumper cable that you can use to connect the plug to the frame with a solid connection.  Then crank the engine in the dark to see what is going on.

Check those plug wires to make sure they are on the right plugs. 
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Laitch

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2016, 10:07:44 AM »
So the plugs were wet, todd?
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2016, 10:08:44 AM »
yes they were wet.
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline Laitch

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2016, 10:11:50 AM »
You've checked the plug leads for the correct coil connections according to the manual, like Gryph has suggested?
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline toddlmr

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  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2016, 10:21:14 AM »
Quote from: Laitch on January 16, 2016, 10:11:50 AM
You've checked the plug leads for the correct coil connections according to the manual, like Gryph has suggested?
As far as the plugs having resistor screwed on and boots being slid over tight? Yes
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2016, 10:27:23 AM »
Are you absolutely sure you have the wires connected to the correct cylinders?  There is at least one wire that folds back.  A couple weeks ago there was a thread here where the engine wouldn't start because the owner had the plug wires mixed up.
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline toddlmr

  • ^ Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2016, 10:40:12 AM »
Of course anything is possible and I will check but  they were on correctly before my work,  when it ran. I have only taken off cyl 1&2. I am gonna change out plugs, check wires and check fuses too start. And I am heading out in a few to get my instrument cluster. BTW I found a beautiful 86 k75 on CL for $1500. One owner (20k) miles. Son has it and wants it gone...
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2016, 10:54:29 AM »
Quote from: toddlmr on January 16, 2016, 10:40:12 AM
BTW I found a beautiful 86 k75 on CL for $1500. One owner (20k) miles. Son has it and wants it gone...

Why don't these deals show up near me?  $1500 for an S model with 20k.  A brick that still needs breaking in. 
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline toddlmr

  • ^ Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 87
Re: Austin Texas 85 k100rs build
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2016, 10:55:33 AM »
Quote from: The Mighty Gryphon on January 16, 2016, 10:54:29 AM
Quote from: toddlmr on January 16, 2016, 10:40:12 AM
BTW I found a beautiful 86 k75 on CL for $1500. One owner (20k) miles. Son has it and wants it gone...

Why don't these deals show up near me?  $1500 for an S model with 20k.  A brick that still needs breaking in.
I sent an  email and offered less...
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  • austin, tx
  • 1985
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