Author Topic: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse  (Read 6669 times)

Offline billday

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Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« on: February 24, 2012, 04:28:21 PM »
Something (don't ask me what) led me to the Naked Gold Wing Club

http://www.ngwclub.com/

Check out the "Shop Talk" section -- very interesting to see how this other beast is designed and built.
  • New York State, USA 10977
  • 1985 K100

Offline sbeadg

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 05:04:11 PM »
You know, the early Wings were a very cool ride in their day.  I actually looked at and drove an early, naked black one a few years ago just to see what it drove like.  It had about 50k on it, as I recall and it felt pretty loose.  Looking at the shop talk section of that site, it appears there's plenty there to keep a tinkerer busy. Nicest thing about the bike could be the name.... :popcorm
'90 K100 LT 
previously owned:
'70 R75/5 Black Beauty
'80 Suzuki 850 (fostered for a friend living in NYC)
back riding again after 35 years and loving every minute!

Offline wmax351

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 10:20:49 PM »
You know, the early Wings were a very cool ride in their day.  I actually looked at and drove an early, naked black one a few years ago just to see what it drove like.  It had about 50k on it, as I recall and it felt pretty loose.  Looking at the shop talk section of that site, it appears there's plenty there to keep a tinkerer busy. Nicest thing about the bike could be the name.... :popcorm

I do like the old GL1000's. They look nice, and are apparently somewhat agile as well. They got bigger and heavier as they went on.
  • Albuquerque, NM
  • 91 BMW K75 Standard, 98 Moto Guzzi California EV
Bikes:
Current:1991 BMW K75 Standard, 1998 Moto Guzzi California EV11
Past: '83 BMW R65LS, '75 Honda CB550F, '69 Honda CB175, 1999 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, 1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V, 1971 BMW R75/5 in Toaster outfit, 1979 Harley Davidson XLS-1000 Sportster Roadster

Offline billday

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 06:42:49 PM »
I read that when BMW was looking for a replacement for the boxer twin, they did not consider the obvious development -- a water-cooled boxer four -- because Honda had already done the Gold Wing. They couldn't do something that had already been done by the Japanese. But looking at the Gold Wing makes me yearn to live in a universe where BMW made a boxer four. Theirs would have been so much more elegant and interesting than what Honda came up with.
  • New York State, USA 10977
  • 1985 K100

Offline DRxBMW

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2012, 07:30:22 PM »
I read that when BMW was looking for a replacement for the boxer twin, they did not consider the obvious development -- a water-cooled boxer four -- because Honda had already done the Gold Wing. They couldn't do something that had already been done by the Japanese. But looking at the Gold Wing makes me yearn to live in a universe where BMW made a boxer four. Theirs would have been so much more elegant and interesting than what Honda came up with.


Bill,
Your behind in the tech curve.

BMW Is VERY actively involved in designing the Wasser Boxer.

Here's a SPY shot from Spain:

Spanish magazine Solomoto has printed some spy pictures of a water cooled GS. It says it will be a 2012 model.

Here is a basic translation of the five points show on the right hand side of the picture.

1 Motor water cooled engine with the intake and exhaust located at the top and bottom of the cylinders.

2 radiator located above the televeler, hiding in between the plastics and the crash guards.

3 "Cardan" (final drive and shaft drive) located on the left hand side of the bike, totally backwards from the current 1200GS

4 Exhaust pipe with exit on the right hand side of the bike, with the cardan on the left is no space for the collector, take a look at the saddle bag.

5 Front modified with a new windscreen, plastics, crash guards, elevated front fender (I don't see it, but that is what they say) optics. Is very similar to the 1200GSA but different.

Ps: That is more or less what the side notes say..

My sources have told me a 2012 model

Gary
Williamsport,Pa

1994 K 75 ABS "custom"
2005 F 650 GS

Offline DRxBMW

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 07:35:36 PM »

My sources have told me a 2012 model



A wee bit of humor: :lol: :lol:

2013 Wasser Boxer



Another interesting point is that BMW now has the largest engineering dept of all M/C mfgrs to including Honda. BMW has made a corporate decision to "Go for it" re the M/C industry. All of the recent past problems like the final drive problems that Dave (Darthrider) has experienced on his R1150R has been addressed or are being addressed. For example, look at the FD unit on the new K16's. A big and beefy new unit.

Gary
Williamsport,Pa

1994 K 75 ABS "custom"
2005 F 650 GS

Offline DRxBMW

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2012, 07:39:30 PM »
another spy shot in color:



DrxBMW,

This morning I found the brand-new motorcycle newspaper "MO" -Special edition BMW motorcycles"
(special edition #37, April - June 2011) in my postbox.

It contains a 5-page thrilling report on the new motor with REAL pics taken from the prototype cast crankcase, heads and so on.

Anybody who is able to buy this, should buy it. I personally have no doubt that this prototype motor shows the real new watercooled boxer that will be shown to public in fall 2012 and that will arrive in the dealers' showrooms in spring 2013.

The whole motor is more compact and lighter, despite of featuring a water cooling system. There will be very few water hoses as most of the cooling canals are situated within the crankcase - visible from the outside, but internal.

The crankcase is divided vertically, the cylinders and the crankcase are one part, similar to motors like the Honda VTR1000F / SP-1 and SP-2. Good idea to keep the crankcase stable and stiff and the cylinders short. Downside: Makes tuning and motor revision harder and more costly.

Cylinders and heads still have cooling ribs, and what should I say, I like that design VERY much. It looks more compact, lighter (which it will be) more sporty and absolutely modern, but it still keeps a lot of the old BMW boxer heritage.

The intake ducts are flipped over, from the rear where they were now about ~70°-75° upright. The outlet is ~180° opposite, facing down and a little bit (~15°-20°) forward.

The pics of the cylinder heads show radial mounted valves (as the HP2S got already) but -thanks to the upright intake ducts- with a REAL DOHC and a lower valve angle. Valves might be a little bit bigger as they were in the HP2S.

Combustion chamber and ducts look kind of ideal, there is a single 10mm spark plug thread in the center. Combustion chamber is so compact with such big holes for the valves that there will be no possibility for a 2nd spark plug.

The oil reservoir shows up very slim - it seems the manifold will be wound very narrow around the crankcase.

Cams will perhaps be actuated by gear drive (!) but only from a middle shaft that is been driven thru an ordinary chain from the crank.

The new crankcase is said to have three (!) main crank bearings, but unfortunately the pics don't show everything, so I can't say if there is a middle main bearing. Also there were no pics of the crank.

It's quite a sensation that the new water-cooled boxers won't have a separated gear-box. In fact the gear-box is integrated, there is one oil circuit lubricating the gear-box too and there is a "wet clutch" with multiple clutch discs, although the clutch is situated in the crankcase where it used to be. Newspaper announced that the gear-box will be built by a BMW-joint-venture enterprise in china and not by traditional supplier GETRAG from germany - what a pity.

Oil reservoir is small and slim because now a fair amount of the oil will also be "stored" in the gearbox.

Inlet ducts are not round but rectangular, so they should be bigger.

Newspaper is speculating about a bore/stroke ration of 100x75 or 102x75 or 102x78mm.

I personally think this is rubbish. Bigger ducts, bigger valves, a water-cooling system, a REAL DOHC all that indicates that the motor was invented to produce a lot of hp. So I personally think it is likely that pistons will be bigger than before (old 1200 stock: 101mm) and perhaps that the stroke might stay the same or even get a little bit "shorter" than old 1200 boxer motors have.

Why should BMW use smaller pistons and a longer crank for such a modern motor ?
I'm hoping for a 104x73mm which would lead to 1241cc
A sport motor would be possible with a 104x70.5 giving it 1198cc.

Dean O
Founder San Jose BMW,Cali
Gary
Williamsport,Pa

1994 K 75 ABS "custom"
2005 F 650 GS

Offline billday

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Re: Elswhere in the shaftie-verse
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 07:36:49 AM »
Bill,
Your behind in the tech curve.

BMW Is VERY actively involved in designing the Wasser Boxer.

Yes but.... I said four-cylinder water-cooled boxer.
  • New York State, USA 10977
  • 1985 K100

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