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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => Project Classic Motobricks => Topic started by: beemuker on April 20, 2021, 01:47:00 PM
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I think my New to me K 11 fuel pump is toast Duralast has the kit for 225 quantum 90. Anybody have luck with these quantum kits. I need a damper and screan , so the kit makes sense . I could try soak in my old fuel pump what should I soak it in and what about the fuel level sender any success cleaning that up. And what’s the best way to clean the tank out I was thinking of flushing it out with a hose to get all the big stuff out the then put some vinegar in there. Advice?
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/2839-200421133921.jpeg)
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I ordered the quantum kit $90 free two day shipping.
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I have that Quantum kit in a K100 and it works fine.
Throw the fuel sender in a pan of vinegar for a couple days. What ever you do, DON'T try to move the arm! Eventually, the rust holding the arm will release it. If it won't move under it's own weight it's not done soaking.
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I didn’t try to move it but it’s moving on its own. I think that’s good?
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Yeah, that's good news. I think I would give it a bit of a good soaking with penetrating oil to clean up any residual corrosion and protect it until it gets submerged in fuel again. Be very protective of the wire windings. I found out the hard way how fragile they are.
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Yeah, that's good news. I think I would give it a bit of a good soaking with penetrating oil to clean up any residual corrosion and protect it until it gets submerged in fuel again. Be very protective of the wire windings. I found out the hard way how fragile they are.
have you or anyone else taking it apart to clean it there’s lots of nooks and crannies that’s hard to get from the outside seems like you could just unbend a tabs and carefully take it apart or should I just leave well enough alone
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/2839-210421114346.jpeg)
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or should I just leave well enough alone
Are you certain it's well enough or should you let it get more encrusted? Cleaning instructions are here (https://www.k100-forum.com/t9265-messing-with-the-in-tank-fuel-sender), although yours would probably benefit from a long duration, spa-style vinegar soak, as Gryph suggested in his earlier post. :laughing4-giggles:
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Wow, that sender looks rough.
Yes, a good spa style vinegar soak for a couple days would be really appreciated by your sender. Follow up with a shot of P-Blaster(it has a lot of oil in it) to protect it until you get the bike back on the road.
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Are you certain it's well enough or should you let it get more encrusted? Cleaning instructions are here (https://www.k100-forum.com/t9265-messing-with-the-in-tank-fuel-sender), although yours would probably benefit from a long duration, spa-style vinegar soak, as Gryph suggested in his earlier post. :laughing4-giggles:
thanks for this link, exactly what I needed. I have been soaking it in vinegar and I got most of the crust off but it’s real difficult to get at the inside I was going to take it apart but this is giving me more confidence you guys are the best.
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Wow, that sender looks rough.
Yes, a good spa style vinegar soak for a couple days would be really appreciated by your sender. Follow up with a shot of P-Blaster(it has a lot of oil in it) to protect it until you get the bike back on the road.
The windings look shot. I'll test ,it but I'm not hopeful. Euromotoelectric wants almost $300 for a new one. I hope the low fuel indicator will work, or at least the trip meter.
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Use an ohmmeter to test the windings. There should be 150 Ohms across the entire resistor, and you should be able to measure the varying resistance as you move the arm by placing one meter lead on one side of the resistor and the other on the wiper.
Even if the resistor is shot, the fuel pump connections should still continue to work, as should the low fuel indicator. The low fuel is a separate wiper and a separate circuit card located below the one with the wire-wound resistor. You can do the same functional check by measuring the continuity between White and Brown wires. Move the arm and continuity should suddenly be measured when the arm nears its travel limits in one direction. It would be useful to open the fuel level sender and clean the circuit card and wiper. The instructions Laitch linked to will give you instructions.
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Use an ohmmeter to test the windings. There should be 150 Ohms across the entire resistor, and you should be able to measure the varying resistance as you move the arm by placing one meter lead on one side of the resistor and the other on the wiper.
Even if the resistor is shot, the fuel pump connections should still continue to work, as should the low fuel indicator. The low fuel is a separate wiper and a separate circuit card located below the one with the wire-wound resistor. You can do the same functional check by measuring the continuity between White and Brown wires. Move the arm and continuity should suddenly be measured when the arm nears its travel limits in one direction. It would be useful to open the fuel level sender and clean the circuit card and wiper. The instructions Laitch linked to will give you instructions.
Thanks yeah the windings were shot I took it apart and cleaned it real good install the sender And the pump and filter and buttoned it all up going to install the tank tomorrow put the battery in and hopefully it’ll crank thanks for all your help guys
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I ordered the quantum kit $90 free two day shipping.
An FYI on the quantum kit. It does not come with the proper hoses ,nuts ,clamps,and special inserts for the mounting ring. I bought the proper hoses locally and was able to clean up the mounting hardware. You can buy a cheaper filter and pump, but the $90 wasn't bad considering it comes with the vibration damper [$100 from Max] and pre filter. You can also buy the kit without the pump for $40.
https://www.highflowfuel.com/product-result/?ymmq=lk_motorcycle-scooter~yr_1993~mk_bmw~dq_k1100lt~zp_efi
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Thanks yeah the windings were shot I took it apart and cleaned it real good install the sender And the pump and filter and buttoned it all up going to install the tank tomorrow put the battery in and hopefully it’ll crank thanks for all your help guys
well it cranked, but no noise out of pump. Pulled and tested fuses, are they all supposed to be 15 amp?
Unplugged 4 pin , only getting about 7.5 volts out of yellow wire?12.9 out of battery.
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Pulled and tested fuses, are they all supposed to be 15 amp?
They're all 15A fuses. Go to this section (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=11014.0) then download the K1100LT/RS service manual and the K1100 Rider's Manual. The rider's manual will answer all the lesser questions like the amperage of fuses and how to use the side stand. :laughing4-giggles:
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Should I be getting 12v at 4 pin
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You're welcome.
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You're welcome.
thanks. I'm just getting frustrated trying to find info. I really appreciate all the help. trying to figure out why the fuel pump is not working without pulling everything out after I got it all back together. One step forward, 2 steps back.
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Describe how you're conducting this "test" of pump voltage.
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after about 1 hour of searching, I found this
Green/White = +12V for pump (pin 15)
Brown = Ground (pin 31)
White = Low fuel indicator (pin W)
Yellow = Fuel level (pin G)
after switching on ignition, I get no voltage at female green/white on connector. allother electrics seem to work. flashers, headlight horn. I switched relays, no help. ?
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after about 1 hour of searching, I found this
Green/White = +12V for pump (pin 15)
Brown = Ground (pin 31)
White = Low fuel indicator (pin W)
Yellow = Fuel level (pin G)
after switching on ignition, I get no voltage at female green/white on connector. allother electrics seem to work. flashers, headlight horn. I switched relays, no help. ?
Are you testing with the side stand up? It needs to be up. You need to verify that the side stand switch works correctly, or that it has been bypassed.
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Yes, stand up. That possibility dawned on me quite a while agoThere is no switch at least not down there where my previous bikes have had them
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Call the previous owner there is a side stand switch and the last time it ran last year he says it was working and it Hass to be up to start it must be in a different location then my other bikes I don’t see a wire running up or the connector where it was on my other bikes.
Check for voltage with the side stand up and ignition key on my first turn the key it shows about 11 or 12 V and then quickly goes down to zero that wire coming from the fuel sender was pretty rough and cracked in places especially down near the sender , I may have to pull the fuel sender out and try to rewire it but it’s cracked mostly down near the bottom and I’m not the greatest at soldering I don’t think I can get a splice on it
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The fuel pump relay on the K1100 will receive the 12V to its coil when the ignition switch is put into the on position, It will engage for 1 - 2 seconds to prime the fuel system when the moronic is first powered up. Power for the pump comes from Fuse 6 and travels through the fuel pump relay contacts and finally to ground. If the side stand is up, the side stand switch will not be engage and power will flow to the pump. However, power to the motronic relay is still controlled by the side stand switch. If the side stand is down, the motronic will not complete the fuel relay ground path and the pump will not run.
What does this mean for you.
- if fuse 6 is blown, no power to the fuel pump. check fuse 6
- if side stand switch defective or side stand down, then motronic will not start the pump. check for power on pin 86 (Green/yellow) of fuel pump relay. check side stand switch and its wiring. bypass side stand switch if needed
- if fuel relay defective, then fuel pump will not run. check for power into pin 30 (red/green).
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Thanks rbm. Supposed to get some bad weather tomorrow it’ll be a good day for inside wrenching
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tested the side stand switch at the plug with meter. It is working. Pulling in the clutch also had no effect.
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I may choose to delete this post if it's sufficiently idiotic. . . but doesn't the fuel pump only run very briefly unless a) the starter switch is pressed or b) the engine is running? I am far from an electronical genius or any kind of genius for that matter.
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Call the previous owner there is a side stand switch and the last time it ran last year he says it was working and it Hass to be up to start it must be in a different location then my other bikes I don’t see a wire running up or the connector where it was on my other bikes.
Check for voltage with the side stand up and ignition key on my first turn the key it shows about 11 or 12 V and then quickly goes down to zero that wire coming from the fuel sender was pretty rough and cracked in places especially down near the sender , I may have to pull the fuel sender out and try to rewire it but it’s cracked mostly down near the bottom and I’m not the greatest at soldering I don’t think I can get a splice on it
the wires from the sender to pump are cracked so before I try to rewire I tested continuity between the ground coming from the 4 pin to the ground on fuel pump and the power from 4 pin to pump. both have continuity. Also getting power to pin 30 on relay and previously had also switched relays around. To eliminate the possibility of a bad fuel pump I removed it and bench tested. I'm striking out here so I'll go back to my other challenge and try to figure out why after rebuilding the water pump on my "96 Evinrude 90 it still is not peeing water. Lack of peeing can be a real pain. :laughing1:
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I may choose to delete this post if it's sufficiently idiotic. . . but doesn't the fuel pump only run very briefly unless a) the starter switch is pressed or b) the engine is running? I am far from an electronical genius or any kind of genius for that matter.
Yes, but it's not even running briefly, and not starting.
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I may choose to delete this post if it's sufficiently idiotic. . . but doesn't the fuel pump only run very briefly unless a) the starter switch is pressed or b) the engine is running? I am far from an electronical genius or any kind of genius for that matter.
On 2V K-bikes with LE-Jetronic EFI, the fuel pump ran when the start switch was pushed, not before. On 4V K-bikes with Motronic EFI, the fuel pump runs for a short time when the bike is turned on before pressing the start switch.,
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On 2V K-bikes with LE-Jetronic EFI, the fuel pump ran when the start switch was pushed, not before. On 4V K-bikes with Motronic EFI, the fuel pump runs for a short time when the bike is turned on before pressing the start switch.,
any suggestion on where I go from here? Something is keeping the fuel pump from working, but damn if I know what.
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any suggestion on where I go from here? Something is keeping the fuel pump from working, but damn if I know what.
Have you verified the operation of the pump independently of the rest of the bike's wiring? Disconnect the tank from the harness and apply 12V to the pins on the tank connector corresponding to the pump - Green/White and Brown.
- Does the pump operate? If yes, good. If not, check wiring.
after switching on ignition, I get no voltage at female green/white on connector.
You'll want to check the sources of power for the components of interest for getting the fuel pump to operate. Those components are Motronic unit, Motronic relay, Fuel Pump relay. From my documentation for a 1994 K1100LT, fuses of interest are:
Fuse 6 = Battery (Unswitched) = Fuel Pump Relay(30)
Fuse 5 = Battery (Unswitched) = Motronic(15), Motronic Relay(30)
Since these are unswitched circuits, power should be present on those pins with our without the ignition key being switched on.
- Are you reading battery voltage on the Fuel Pump Relay pin 30 (Red/Green) wire (relative to ground)? If yes, good, If not, check wiring for broken wires or loose connections.
- Are you reading battery voltage on the Motronic pins (Red/Yellow) at the Motronic and the Motronic relay? If yes, good, If not, check wiring for broken wires or loose connections.
Now that you've verified that power is being provided and that your pump is capable of running, you need to check whether it is getting switched on correctly. Power at pin 30 of the fuel pump relay will supply the power to the tank connector. If you don't read voltage at the fuel tank connector harness side when you switch on the ignition, start tracing power to the fuel pump relay coil. It starts at the ignition switch, travels through the side stand switch, through the fuel pump relay coil and finally to the Motronic switched ground lead.
- Are you reading battery voltage on Pin 15 of the ignition switch (Green) when the key is turned on? If yes, good, If not, check the ignition switch.
- Are you reading battery voltage at pin 85 (green/yellow) of the fuel pump relay with the side stand up? Does voltage drop to zero when the side stand is down? Do you get the exact same behaviour at the Motronic relay pin 86 (Green/Yellow) when you raise and lower the side stand. If yes, good. If not, check the side stand switch and the associated wiring.
The last piece in this puzzle is the Motronic switched ground (Blue/Brown). The Motronic controls the ground to the fuel pump and turns it on or off depending on other sensors on the bike.
- for test purposes only to isolate the Motronic, you can temporarily ground the Blue/Brown wire on the fuel pump relay. That way it does not depend on the signal from the Motronic. Be prepared. When you turn on the ignition and the side stand is up, the fuel pump should start working if all the other tests above passed. If it does, it means the Motronic is not switching the ground for some reason. You'll have to continue troubleshooting that problem. If the pump fails to run even with this temporary ground in place, then the fuel pump relay is bad. Get a new one..
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thanks Robert, some of this I've already done, I'll get to the rest tomorrow.
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I don't know a lot about big outboards, but the rubber impeller water pumps on inboards lose a lot of output when the sides of the impeller wears away the metal of the cover. Good output depends on the water not flowing back over the sides of the impeller vanes. If the fit is loose enough the pump won't even prime.
I don't know how many hours you have on yours, but I would suspect a 25 year old engine on a Florida boat would have a lot of hours and wear in the pump chamber.
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I don't know a lot about big outboards, but the rubber impeller water pumps on inboards lose a lot of output when the sides of the impeller wears away the metal of the cover. Good output depends on the water not flowing back over the sides of the impeller vanes. If the fit is loose enough the pump won't even prime.
I don't know how many hours you have on yours, but I would suspect a 25 year old engine on a Florida boat would have a lot of hours and wear in the pump chamber.
I rebuilt the pump using new housing and impeller. I've got a shop manual and followed it . I've had trouble lining everything up , until my brother suggested using a ratchet strap to slowly raise the lower unit, enabling you to line it up. duh still no pee ???
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duh still no pee ???
Maybe the impeller shaft key got away from you. 177381
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back to the bike
verified the operation of the pump independently of the rest of the bike's wiring following RBM suggestion. the wiring probably should be replaced but doesn't appear to be the problem.
When checking voltage at green/white from harness side with kickstand up, voltage momentarily goes to 11, then quickly down to 0? some feedback loop seems to be shutting the voltage down?
verified power at pin 30 on pump relay
pulled and checked all fuses.
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What you describe is normal operation of the fuel pump in Motronic systems.
When the key is turned on, the fuel pump is activated for 2 seconds to prime the rail and injectors. When the engine starts and the engine speed is sensed by the Hall Effect Sensors to be above 700rpm the fuel pump is switched on by the ECU.
I believe you have an aftermarket fuel pump now. I think I have the same one in my '88 K100RS. For some reason, it does not prime the injectors as quickly as the OEM Bosch pump. On my bike, I need to cycle it a couple times to get enough fuel pressure in the rail to fire a cold engine when I press the start button.
Have you disconnected the fuel supply hose at the rail and put it into a bottle to see if indeed fuel is being pumped when the ignition is turned on? I would suggest a 2 liter soda bottle to contain the splash.
I could be wrong, but my experience is that the sidestand switch disables the spark. I have flooded my engine on a couple occasions trying to start the engine with the sidestand down.
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What you describe is normal operation of the fuel pump in Motronic systems.
When the key is turned on, the fuel pump is activated for 2 seconds to prime the rail and injectors. When the engine starts and the engine speed is sensed by the Hall Effect Sensors to be above 700rpm the fuel pump is switched on by the ECU.
I believe you have an aftermarket fuel pump now. I think I have the same one in my '88 K100RS. For some reason, it does not prime the injectors as quickly as the OEM Bosch pump. On my bike, I need to cycle it a couple times to get enough fuel pressure in the rail to fire a cold engine when I press the start button.
Have you disconnected the fuel supply hose at the rail and put it into a bottle to see if indeed fuel is being pumped when the ignition is turned on? I would suggest a 2 liter soda bottle to contain the splash.
I could be wrong, but my experience is that the sidestand switch disables the spark. I have flooded my engine on a couple occasions trying to start the engine with the sidestand down.
the fuel pump is not being activated. With the tank opened, I do not hear the pump when ignition is switched on, sidestand up. When I say momentary voltage at tank connector, I mean a flash, not 2 seconds. I am familiar with the sound a brick makes when switching the ignition on, especially with a near empty tank. Currently have the tank off to better perform tests RBM suggested on relays.
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results of RBM's tests:
reading battery voltage on fuel pump relay pin 30
reading 12v at Motrtronic relay pin 30
I am not reading voltage at pin 85 of fuel pump relay with side stand up [or down]
I do not get voltage at motronic relay pin 86 with side stand either up or down. Grounded blue/brn on fuel pump relay, tank is off, but no voltage at tank connector green.
I do get 12v at red/yel at motronic relay.
I don't know how to read voltage at Motronic .?
I don't know where pin 15 of ignition switch is. Is it on a relay, or in the actual switch?
thanks for all the help. 112350
gotta go do family stuff now, will try to get back to it tm.
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Pin 15 on the ignition switch is just a designation on the schematic diagram that is produced by BMW. You should look for the green wire on the connector that the ignition switch plugs into on the harness. Stick your voltmeter probe into the connector where the Green wire is. If you are reading 12V on that wire with the ignition on, and no voltage on the Green/Yellow wire at the Motronic relay or the fuel pump relay irrespective of the side stand position, then you have a problem with the side stand switch or its wiring. That's where you have to concentrate your investigation.
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Pin 15 on the ignition switch is just a designation on the schematic diagram that is produced by BMW. You should look for the green wire on the connector that the ignition switch plugs into on the harness. Stick your voltmeter probe into the connector where the Green wire is. If you are reading 12V on that wire with the ignition on, and no voltage on the Green/Yellow wire at the Motronic relay or the fuel pump relay irrespective of the side stand position, then you have a problem with the side stand switch or its wiring. That's where you have to concentrate your investigation.
I'm getting battery voltage at green wire [ignition switch]with ignition on or off.
I get battery voltage at motronic relay. grn/yel
I don't have a green/yellow at fuel pump relay.Pin 85 is a blue/brown. and had no voltage.
i do have voltage at pump relay 30
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Might be a difference between 93 and 94. I do t have a schematic handy for 93. Makes me handicapped to give accurate advise.
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I'm getting battery voltage at green wire [ignition switch]with ignition on or off.
I get battery voltage at motronic relay. grn/yel
I don't have a green/yellow at fuel pump relay.Pin 85 is a blue/brown. and had no voltage.
i do have voltage at pump relay 30
The Clymer K-series manual came today and it has some pretty clear [but b/w] wiring diagrams. Maybe they will help.
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Might be a difference between 93 and 94. I do t have a schematic handy for 93. Makes me handicapped to give accurate advise.
My title says 1993 K100Lt
ran the vin= K1100LT, 526,536, production month 8/1992
and thanks for your help
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My relay box has a few sketchy items, probably related to the aux lighting, front and back, which work. But maybe not and possibly the source of my non operating fuel pump. The black plug and white plug are disconnected from their mates and do not seem to go together. There is also a blue tap. (http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/3/2839-260421185341.jpeg)
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Might be a difference between 93 and 94. I do t have a schematic handy for 93. Makes me handicapped to give accurate advise.Yes, they are different. The same diagram as in my manual is in the electrical diagrams section of motobrick. I don't know how to paste the link though.
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The Black and white plugs have no mates out of the factory. They are for add-on alarm and other "special systems".
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The Black and white plugs have no mates out of the factory. They are for add-on alarm and other "special systems".
thanks
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"Now that you've verified that power is being provided and that your pump is capable of running, you need to check whether it is getting switched on correctly. Power at pin 30 of the fuel pump relay will supply the power to the tank connector. If you don't read voltage at the fuel tank connector harness side when you switch on the ignition, start tracing power to the fuel pump relay coil. It starts at the ignition switch, travels through the side stand switch, through the fuel pump relay coil and finally to the Motronic switched ground lead."
I've reread all the suggestions but I'm at a loss where to go from here. now that I have a clear wiring diagram I'll try to figure out why power to pump is not getting switched on. Ihope it's not a problem with the moto's "brain" , just my brain.
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"Now that you've verified that power is being provided and that your pump is capable of running, you need to check whether it is getting switched on correctly. Power at pin 30 of the fuel pump relay will supply the power to the tank connector. If you don't read voltage at the fuel tank connector harness side when you switch on the ignition, start tracing power to the fuel pump relay coil. It starts at the ignition switch, travels through the side stand switch, through the fuel pump relay coil and finally to the Motronic switched ground lead."
I've reread all the suggestions but I'm at a loss where to go from here. now that I have a clear wiring diagram I'll try to figure out why power to pump is not getting switched on. Ihope it's not a problem with the moto's "brain" , just my brain.
I read through Vogel's K bike flow chart, but part of the troubleshooting chart is cut off? My problem also seems to start at the turning on of the key, when my fuel pump should pressurize.
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Where are you viewing the chart and on which device are you viewing it? Have you found the diagnostic plug under the seat? Keep in mind that Vogel's chart is for a 2V Brick. There are a few differences.
Did you find power at the fuel injection relay?
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Where are you viewing the chart and on which device are you viewing it? Have you found the diagnostic plug under the seat? Keep in mind that Vogel's chart is for a 2V Brick. There are a few differences.
Did you find power at the fuel injection relay?
viewing the chart on a chromebook from electrical diagrams on this forum, was using it to see what I could possibly do next.
no, haven't found diagnostic plug. should I look for it and what should I do when I find it?
yes,at relay pin 30, no at 85, stand up
muchas gracias for the help
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Power to the side stand swiych from a green/yellow wire, goes to the fuel relay through a green/red wire.
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viewing the chart on a chromebook from electrical diagrams on this forum, was using it to see what I could possibly do next.
You want to see that chart in its entirety, go to the K100-forum's Portal, click on the Tech Page link then find the document Troubleshooting The ECU.
yes,at relay pin 30, no at 85,
muchas gracias for the help
De nada. Just to review technique, watch this. You know, rbm and daveson can't always be here :laughing4-giggles: and Gryph is apparently busy keeping neighbors off his lawn a lot of the time, when he isn't captaining on the Lake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpRWcNoLdwQ&t=410s
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Thanks again Laitch.
I'll test the relays tomorrow after I test my boat engine in the water. Finally got the boat engine to pee. I took the water pump apart and reassembled. I believe my problem was that the plastic key that drives the impeller had slipped and the impeller wasn't engaged. I could have saved myself a lot of effort by testing it manually before I put it back on the engine, but since I need to do this often as we have shallow water with a lot of sand, I'll be a lot more competent.
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I believe my problem was that the plastic key that drives the impeller had slipped and the impeller wasn't engaged. .
Like in Reply #35? :johnny
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I tested the 4 pin relays, they all test good.
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Pulled the fan relay, same thing. Am I doing something wrong?
We don't have anyway to know whether you can follow directions or if you have setup your multimeter for the test correctly. You've been successful getting motos to run acceptably in the past. I usually review all instructions twice and test twice.
How many terminals on this relay?
Call the local auto parts stores and tell them which relay you need.
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We don't have anyway to know whether you can follow directions or if you have setup your multimeter for the test correctly. You've been successful getting motos to run acceptably in the past. I usually review all instructions twice and test twice.
How many terminals on this relay?
Call the local auto parts stores and tell them which relay you need.
the relays are 4 pin, and the youtube was good at explaining how they work, thanks for that. I retested, the relays are fine, had meter set to wrong scale. I can usually follow directions, but ...
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Moto will crank with side stand up or down.
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But do You have power at the green/red wire of the fuel relay when you press the start button? I'm guessing it's pin 86.
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Yes with the side stand up no inside stand down
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Can you give a summary.
Do you have power at the pump with the start button pressed? Is earth to the pump good?
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But, I get power to pin 87(2grn/white wires) , ignition on, starter depressed, so that should power the pump? No power with stand down,.
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Can you give a summary.
Do you have power at the pump with the start button pressed? Is earth to the pump good?
i’ve got the tank off and the pump out but I didn’t before I took the tank off I can put it back together and re-check anything I should do before I put the tank back on it’s a lot harder to access the relay box with the tank on even propped up. Both wires showed continuity from the four pin outside the tank to the two wires going to the pump.
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Does the fuel relay click when it gets power to 86?
yes
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Ah I just deleted that cause I missed your reply about power to 87.
I usually promise myself not to reply to k1100 threads. Is the relay four pin? Do you have a less important one with the same part number to try. Spose the contact inside isn't good, it could show continuity but not enough power for a pump.
With the help of a screwdriver, can you hear a clicking from the injectors with the start button pressed?
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Ah I just deleted that cause I missed your reply about power to 87.
I’ve checked all the four pin relays and they all appear to be operating as designed, The previous owner said all was well before he let the bike sit and the battery died and the fuel went bad I believe it had water in the tank too since the fuel cap was on backwards the wire is going to the pump from the sender are cracked but I think it Beyond my soldering skills to solder new wires on but the cracks really shouldn’t affect the pump getting power unless the wires were shorting out right
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Looking at the wiring diagram if I’m getting power at the green white on the fuel pump relay I should be getting power to the fuel pump unless unless the other wire going to the motronic can keep it from getting power somehow
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It’s looking doubtful that I’ll be able to mix it up with the Harley boys at thunder Beach this weekend
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There are two green/white wires from the fuel relay, one goes to the pump, one goes to the injectors.
If the pump works with a jumper wire from 30 to 87, you might have a bad relay.
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There are two green/white wires from the fuel relay, one goes to the pump, one goes to the injectors.
right you are , the L/Br goes to the mototronic. I’m thinking that this Hasto be the wires from the fuel level sander to the pump even though they’re showing continuity.
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When I checked for voltage at the four pin connector yellow wire I only get about 7 V side stand up.
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L/Br would be earth from the computer, you have power at 87, so the computer is allowing earth.
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Shouldn’t I be getting 12 V at the tank connector yellow wire?
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I don't see yellow on the drawing, I'd just Focus on power and earth.
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I don't see yellow on the drawing, I'd just Focus on power and earth.
there are four wires going into the tank white green yellow and brown I believe Brown is the earth the white and green are fuel level and low fuel and I believe the yellow is the power to the pump shouldn’t I be getting 12 V to the pump on the yellow wire?
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You might be right. Trace back to find where the Voltage drop is. Maybe the relay.
Just signing out nigh on midnight here, got to get to bed before my car turns into a pumpkin.
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there are four wires going into the tank white green yellow and brown I believe Brown is the earth the white and green are fuel level and low fuel and I believe the yellow is the power to the pump shouldn’t I be getting 12 V to the pump on the yellow wire?
can anyone confirm this for me which wire at the tank connector supplies power to the pump I think it’s the yellow but I’m not sure
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https://www.vbuycbd.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=681321
Anybody buy from them?
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can anyone confirm this for me which wire at the tank connector supplies power to the pump I think it’s the yellow but I’m not sure
I think it’s the green /wh, when I have the kickstand up ignition on and start depressed I get 12 V at the Green/WhiteSo I think my problem is with the fuel level sending wires
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can anyone confirm this for me which wire at the tank connector supplies power to the pump I think it’s the yellow but I’m not sure
Yellow has nothing at all to do with fuel delivery. It is connected to the variable resistor in the fuel sender and outputs a resistance based on the level of fuel. If you are reading a voltage, it is parasitic.
Power to the pump is Green/White. Return for the pump is Brown. Those are the only two wires you should concentrate on diagnosing.
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I think it’s the green /wh, when I have the kickstand up ignition on and start depressed I get 12 V at the Green/WhiteSo I think my problem is with the fuel level sending wires. . . I tested continuity between the ground coming from the 4 pin to the ground on fuel pump and the power from 4 pin to pump. both have continuity.
Doesn't the second quote above indicate that there is continuity between the plug and the pump so there should be no problem?
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Looking at the wiring diagram if I’m getting power at the green white on the fuel pump relay I should be getting power to the fuel pump unless unless the other wire going to the motronic can keep it from getting power somehow
If you are getting power to Green/White at the fuel pump relay, you should also be seeing power at the Green/White lead on the harness side of the tank connector. There are no wires to the Motronic that should interfere with this power path. The L/Br wire to the Motronic is a switched ground but you've already proven that the Motronic is working correctly, the fuel relay is working correctly, and the power supply to the fuel pump is working correctly. There should be nothing in the way of getting the fuel pump to operate except if there is a break in the wiring somewhere between the harness side of the tank connector and the tank itself. That could be :
- tank connector defective
- tank wiring to fuel pump defective
- gas tight passthrough on the fuel sender defective
- solder joints inside the tank to the passthrough defective
- fuel pump defective
That's quite a list but can you check these items off and confirm they are intact?
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If you are getting power to Green/White at the fuel pump relay, you should also be seeing power at the Green/White lead on the harness side of the tank connector. There are no wires to the Motronic that should interfere with this power path. The L/Br wire to the Motronic is a switched ground but you've already proven that the Motronic is working correctly, the fuel relay is working correctly, and the power supply to the fuel pump is working correctly. There should be nothing in the way of getting the fuel pump to operate except if there is a break in the wiring somewhere between the harness side of the tank connector and the tank itself. That could be :
- tank connector defective
- tank wiring to fuel pump defective
- gas tight passthrough on the fuel sender defective
- solder joints inside the tank to the passthrough defective
- fuel pump defective
That's quite a list but can you check these items off and confirm they are intact?
I removed the fuel level sender, spliced new wires to the yellow and black going to pump. obvious which is ground and which is hot.
with stand up switch on, button depressed cranks and , I get 12 v from g/w harness side.
I do not get power at pump, but I checked continuity from tank side connector, both g/w amd ground, and both check continuity.
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It's a defective connector. Have you replaced the connector? If not, take a flat blade jewellers screwdriver and deform the female contacts on the harness side to make them slightly smaller. This will improve contact to the male pins.
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Can you take the components (pump and sender) out of the tank and test the setup outside of the tank? This will allow you to make electrical tests without the risk of sparks and fire.
already did that. I get continuity on wires to fuel pump from tank side of connector. I get 12 v at harness side of connector, but no power when everything is connected measuring v at pump. Doesn't make sense, what am I missing. ?
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It's a defective connector. Have you replaced the connector? If not, take a flat blade jewellers screwdriver and deform the female contacts on the harness side to make them slightly smaller. This will improve contact to the male pins.
thanks, I'll try that next after I refuel.
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it appears to be the connector. inserted wires into the female connector and clipped leads on the male grn/wh and brn and started, fuel pump whirred . going to get a female flat trailer connector[have several male and I should be good to go. will post results. thanks for all the help .
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One of my neighbors had the other half of the trailer flat connector. Cut out the old connector and spliced in and shrink wrapped the new one. Got the tank back on, poured some non corn in, and after the second try she started up. Took er for a spin and after all the trials of cleaning out the tank innards and wires it was a satisfying short ride.
Still lots to do but I knew that going in and the price was right.
ABS not working .
Forks weeping and contaminating brake rotors and pads.
Oil around weep hole.
Needs tires
But,
The paint and luggage are in good shape.
Clutch doesn't slip
Locomotive power.
Surprisingly nimble for such a heavy bike
Nice color [683] gruen met [metallic green?] I'll post some pics when I clean the old girl up
I found a fuel level sender for $100 . Was going to live without it for 300, but $100 seems reasonable.I cut off the sender and spliced wires on the old one in the meantime.
Thanks for all who chimed in ,I learned a lot from you inmates.
I owe RBM, Laitch, Gryph, Daveson, etc. a few beers and a nice fresh caught fish dinner when you're in the neighborhood. [The boats running great too,we can catch dinner]
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Rode the brick around town yesterday, and the moto ran great EXCEPT the right fork seal is not just weeping, it is gushing fork oil, which makes the front brake rotor well lubricated. Ordered new brake pads as the current ones are saturated. On to fixing the fork seals, another task I've never had the pleasure of tackling.
The seals and caps are about $50 from Max and A&s. I found an old post referencing Marzocchi part 528134 and they are available from various sources for $26.
Euromotoelectrics seems to have various enduralast seals that may work, but I'm unsure of which to order from them. I'm not too sure of the Marzocchi as they appear to be for bicycle suspension. Since the labor is going to be the primary cost in sweat, or $ if I pay to have it done, am I best off buying the BMW parts. I think they are Marzocchi forks though.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BR67H6J?pf_rd_r=3PC8J8PBKQB7J9462NK1&pf_rd_p=5ae2c7f8-e0c6-4f35-9071-dc3240e894a8&pd_rd_r=5df0f6a9-c935-439b-bbfc-89f878fb88da&pd_rd_w=Be4Rp&pd_rd_wg=rWXH5&ref_=pd_gw_unk
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Those are bicycle parts in your link.
Get fork tube seals from BMW; should be close to that price. MaxBMW has them.
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Look for posts here referring to fork seal cleaning. It's a good chance you just have a piece of crap stuck in the seal.
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Look for posts here referring to fork seal cleaning. It's a good chance you just have a piece of crap stuck in the seal.
That was the first thing I did. I had read about the thin plastic "cleaning tool"and made one out of a plastic jug. One of the seals looked rusty and had pieces of rust lying on top. I flushed it out and did the cleaner, but I guess with all that grit it chewed the rubber seal. I just hope the tubes aren't pitted/scored.
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Those are bicycle parts in your link.
Get fork tube seals from BMW; should be close to that price. MaxBMW has them.
I'll be in CT next week. about an hour away from Max. I may go pick them up. the caps look good, but it has been recommended that I replace them while I'm at it. If I can get it apart before I go, I'll know better what I need.Too bad I won't be there for the demo event in June but it still it would be nice to see some of the new BMWs, even if I can't ride them.
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Replace the seals and get Rancho #RS1952 Shock boots to replace the caps. Those Rancho gaiters do an incredible job protecting the seals from the crap that's out there trying to tear them up. They're one of the best mods you can make to your bike. I have them on all my bikes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/142553477350?epid=215134284&hash=item2130d970e6:g:2pEAAOSwuDVecTAP