Measuring pitcher for motor oil

[Motorhobo]

Just wondering what y'all use to mete out the prescribed  3.75 L of motor oil before filling and how you get the exact amount. It's trivial, I know, but not really. Last time I used 3X 1liter oil containers and approximated the .75 remaining liters but it ended up being overfilled according to the sight glass. Plus, there's the issue with viscosity, oil coating the walls of the recepticle and not going where it's supposed to go (i.e. in the engine), and the potential for spillage and drippage.

I guess I could buy a 5 liter measuring pitcher for $25 but just wondering what other solutions are out there.

[daveson]

I just use an old oil container, pictured, it has marks at 0.25lt increments, but get one litre and they won't show you the one litre mark, so I just pencil it in. Don't need a funnel for this type, won't spill one drop with this type, but bricks are easy to fill anyway.

Another thing, I near fill the oil filter before installing it, here's why. A mate of mine who had a fleet of twenty trucks, who did nearly all his mechanical work first mentioned it to me, and a few others I know, the oil pressure builds up more quickly that way. I've read (many moons ago) that most engine wear occurs in the first few seconds of engine start up. I have no idea how true this is.

Mentioned this a few years ago, had heaps of negative posts about it, it is only a suggestion, repeat, it is only a suggestion.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I buy my oil in 4 or 5 quart jugs.  I start by putting a little in the oil filter before I install it.  Then I put a funnel in the oil fill and pour three quarts of oil in the engine using the marks on the jug the oil came in.

Then I start putting the oil in a couple ounces at a time while watching the oil level sight glass.  When it starts to show in the window, I stop putting the oil in, and run the engine for a bit.  I am always amazed that the Germans didn't put the sight glass on the other side of the engine so I couldn't see it while pouring the oil in the engine.

Then, after the engine runs a minute or so, I shut it down and find something to do for 5 minutes while the oil level stabilizes.  Then I add a little more until the oil level almost reaches the dot in the window.  Then I run the engine again and let the oil level settle a second time.  Then I make my final addition of oil raising the level to the dot.

So it takes 15 minutes to fill my engine with oil.  So what!  Sue me.

[frankenduck]

I don't measure. Once I have the oil filter replaced I add enough oil to get it just about to the top of the sight glass.  Then I run it for a minute or two to fill the oil filter.  Turn it off, wait 5-10 minutes to let oil drain back into the sump. Then top off until oil is about 2/3 to 3/4 up the sight glass.

In recent years I use a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1 15W-50 and Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40. The high mileage oil has additives to refresh seals so my theory in doing this is that this may lengthen the life of the rear main seal.

[frankenduck]

I just use an old oil container, pictured, it has marks at 0.25lt increments, but get one litre and they won't show you the one litre mark, so I just pencil it in. Don't need a funnel for this type, won't spill one drop with this type, but bricks are easy to fill anyway.

Another thing, I near fill the oil filter before installing it, here's why. A mate of mine who had a fleet of twenty trucks, who did nearly all his mechanical work first mentioned it to me, and a few others I know, the oil pressure builds up more quickly that way. I've read (many moons ago) that most engine wear occurs in the first few seconds of engine start up. I have no idea how true this is.

Mentioned this a few years ago, had heaps of negative posts about it, it is only a suggestion, repeat, it is only a suggestion.

Yes, it is true that most engine wear occurs from cold starts. It's mostly because the engine is cold and somewhat because the oil is also cold so it's thicker than it is at normal operating temps.  If you run the engine prior to doing on oil change like you are supposed to then there's still a fair amount of oil still in the cylinders and on the bearings when you start the bike after an oil change. I don't prefill the oil filter because I don't think it's a big deal but I wouldn't criticize someone who does because it certainly won't hurt anything.

[Laitch]

Modern oil has durability that our forbears could only dream of experiencing, depending upon what they liked to dream.

I change oil after the engine has been warmed up. I always use a new filter. I do not fill the oil filter before installation for the reasons duck has quackily indicated. I use room-temperature oil—≥60ºF—to refill. The measuring tool system I use consists of liter containers of oil, a 500ml plastic measuring cup and a funnel. After adding 3.5 liters of oil, I run the engine for a few minutes, let it cool then read the sight glass. If oil needs to be topped to a level in the sight glass to satisfy some deep-seated obsessive urge, there is still 500ml available to add plus the oil level can be reviewed as it rises to satisfy the urge, that is, if the sight level window isn't tinted like a pair of Foster Grants. 

I wouldn't criticize others' techniques because I enjoy reading crackpot theory and don't want to limit its expression.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I feel the need to defend myself here.

First, I drain hot because it gets the oil out faster.  The oil in plain bearings will not completely run out even when the engine is hot.  Capillary action will hold a small amount there until the engine is started again.

Second, I fill the filter on my bricks because I have seen it take as long as 8 to 10 seconds to kill the oil pressure idiot light on some of my bikes if I didn't.  If it takes that long to build pressure it is even longer before oil reaches the farthest bearing.  It takes this long to get oil to the bearings because on the first start after an oil change I only let the engine idle for at least 15-20 seconds to prime the system.  Idling reduces the pressure on bearing surfaces while the oil flow travels to the bearings.

The air in the oil filter pushes the residual oil out of the bearings as the new oil begins to flow through the system.  When this air reaches the bearings, they are essentially running dry until the oil behind the air reaches them.  It kind of like turning on the faucets the first time after draining the water out of the pipes.  Getting that surge of air before the water starts to flow.

I do all this because it is true that the worst wear occurs at start up before full oil flow reaches all the bearings and wear surfaces like the cam lobes(arguably the most sensitive part of the engine).  People I know who build racing engines do it this way: if it works for them, I can't see doing it a different way.  All the auto engines I have owned and maintained over the last 40 years have run reliably for a minimum of 300,000 miles in our family and one of them(2001 Honda Accord 4 cyl) was still running at 450,000(and using only one quart of oil between changes) when I sold the car because of rust issues.

I guess it's just a case of different strokes. 

[Chaos]

I never gave it a 2nd thought.  Just fill it to the top of the sight glass and it goes down a little after you run it.  If you can't see through the sight glass change it. You guys could complicate getting drunk and falling down the stairs.  (and I fill the filter because it's the right thing to do)

[frankenduck]

There are modern cars that have the oil filter on the top of the engine pointing up so it is impossible to prefill the oil filter. Do you think automotive engineers would design cars that way if it actually made a material difference?

[daveson]

Some filters have an anti drain back valve for those manufacturers who didn't design its location ideally.

I know a lot of mechanics in Victoria used to do it, I'm thinking it's more than a few seconds to heat up, but then there's the other benefits. Another thing, I never realised how often the oil filters bypass valve opens (allowing unfiltered oil through) until I installed a bypass filter on my car many moons ago. I keep my maintenance so simple, it's embarrassment to admit to.

I imagine meetings with engineers, bean counters and the rest, where they duke it out before a new model goes into production. The cheap manufacturers aren't so dedicated to durability. The bean counters will often win by saying "look most of these units will be at the wreckers in ten years anyway. Then there's Mercedes, I think one of their models pre heats the oil before the car starts. Then there's the mighty BMW k100. They have a thrust washer between the clutch basket and the absorber gear shaft to minimise wear due to the tiny amount of movement that occurs when the absorber dampers compress. That's an incredible dedication to durability you'd be hard pressed to find with a Japanese make, I think (but I did have a Vulcan 1500 that I thought of as durable and well built)

If people treated a Kingswood like a Mercedes, they would last just as long, but people got them cheap so they we're trashed in no time. The Kingswood was very undervalued but brilliant.

And never underestimate the amount of bastardry in the board room, my car I've got to remove the intake manifold to get to the spark plugs. If a mouse chews a spark plug lead, I've got to remove the manifold, bastards.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

There are modern cars that have the oil filter on the top of the engine pointing up so it is impossible to prefill the oil filter. Do you think automotive engineers would design cars that way if it actually made a material difference?

Decisions like that are often driven by convenience for maintenance rather than lubrication efficiency.  OEM engineers only care about the first 100,000 miles of the vehicle life cycle.  Anything beyond that is a bonus.  Personally, I want to drive my old vehicles to the scrap yard when they are pushing 20 years old.  My current daily driver is 15 years old, has 225,000 miles on it and drives like a new car.  Ilsa, my K75RT has 100k, uses less than a quart of oil every 2500 miles and has compression tests at 145 to 150 psi.  I'm comfortable with the way I do things, and the results work for me.

Like I said, different strokes.  Do what works for you. 

[Chaos]

I'd guess the recommended filter for such engines would incorporate an anti drain back valve.  pre filling the filter probably doesn't matter but certainly can't hurt anything.

[Laitch]

pre filling the filter probably doesn't matter . . .

It matters if you want to propose a toast with others who are pre-filling their filters, certainly.

[Motorhobo]

Well, s**t, I thought it was a stupid question, but I guess not. Whew!

Gryph, I did what you do for many years, i.e. adding oil incrementally until it reaches the prescribed sightglass level, but it's a PITA. I want a to pour a correct, premeasured amount of oil in, replace the cap and commence to motobricking.

daveson, I also always fill the oil filter first before adding oil -- I guess that needs to be factored in when determining exactly how much oil to fill through the cap. I also considered using the markings on an old jug, but since the jug is opaque it's hard to judge the level on the inside from the marking on the outside.

My situation is complicated by the fact that my sight glass is opaque and my engine is too old to warrant getting a new one. I've been postponing the inevitable ( i.e. replacing the old engine with the rebuilt one I have sitting in the corner of the garage) but now that my summer bike is gushing oil out the weep hole I need to make a decision - either ride the winter bike with the old engine till it craps out or replace the engine. So...I have a couple questions about that to ask on separate threads.

But as far as the measuring pitcher goes that started this thread, I will probably cut the top off of a 5q Mobile 1 jug and use that as the filler pitcher. The topless version will let me see exactly where the level is in relation to the markings on the outside. Now I just need to know exactly the amount of oil that a new oil filter holds when you prefill it, so I can subtract that from the 3.75 l that's supposed to go in the top...

[The Mighty Gryphon]

If you really need to have a measured amount, buy a 4 quart jug of oil and pour out 8 ounces into a smaller bottle to keep for top ups.  That will leave your 3.75 quarts in the jug so you can just dump it in. 

[Motorhobo]

If you really need to have a measured amount, buy a 4 quart jug of oil and pour out 8 ounces into a smaller bottle to keep for top ups.  That will leave your 3.75 quarts in the jug so you can just dump it in. 

In my case I'm not buying new oil but rather transferring nearly new oil from one bike to another.

[Chaos]

In my case I'm not buying new oil but rather transferring nearly new oil from one bike to another.

Ha, I've been known to do that, a hierarchy of vehicles where the oil drains from the finest to the worst

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Ha, I've been known to do that, a hierarchy of vehicles where the oil drains from the finest to the worst

A long time ago I was a poor student working at a gas station and driving a Corvair with cooked pushrod o-rings that leaked a quart of oil every 50 miles. 

In those days the "empty" oil cans went into a drawer in the display rack between the pumps where the last couple drops of oil drained out into a pan that we emptied every couple of days.  Our station was pretty busy, being at the exit from the Interstate so I was able to collect enough free oil to keep my car running.

One of the other guys who worked there had seniority rights to any of the usable tires that we replaced with new ones. 

[daveson]

I couldn't see through the sight glass when I got my brick. After removing the oil filter, you can get access to it, from memory I thinks I sprayed wd40 through the holes in the steel backing plate, onto the glass. When clean and dry, a small bead of silicone might stop the sight glass leak.

You don't have to measure the amount of oil in the filter, fill it with say a one litre jug (about one quart) then pour the rest in your brick.

See on the two jugs, a narrow, vertical, see through band, for easy measuring, some don't have it.

I'm glad I read this thread, it just so happens that the cap from the one litre jug fits the five litre one, not that important for a brick but handy in some cases.

[Motorhobo]

I couldn't see through the sight glass when I got my brick. After removing the oil filter, you can get access to it, from memory I thinks I sprayed wd40 through the holes in the steel backing plate, onto the glass. When clean and dry, a small bead of silicone might stop the sight glass leak.

daveson, this has me intrigued since I started a thread about an opaque sight glass a while ago...

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=14166.msg127143#msg127143

So you're saying you can access the sight glass from the inside to clean it off by pulling the oil filter, and all you had to do was spray some kind of solvent like WD40 on it? That you can access it from the oil filter cavity appears to be confirmed by this IBMWR.org article:

https://ibmwr.org/index.php/1998/01/01/oil-sight-glass-replacement/

Referencing the engine cutaway that Laitch was kind enough to provide in that thread, w
K75EngineCutaway.png (165.15 kB . 570x496 - viewed 251 times)hat if you drop the oil pan? Will that allow you to access it to clean it better than just by removing the oil filter cover?


Yes, I am trying to avoid having to replace it. I would rather dink with the oil pan for free than dink with the sight glass for +$40 which comes to $80 since I have two high-mileage K75's.

[Motorhobo]

On second thought -- looking at the cutaway, it looks like dropping the pan wouldn't change anything, since the oil filter cavity is in the way, or am I seeing that wrong?

[daveson]

You have better access with the bottom of the sump removed, but for some reason I got to it the lazy man's way, through the oil filter cover plate hole.

It's slowly coming back to me now, I definitely used a spray can of something (maybe Carby cleaner) with a longer than usual extension tube. Wasn't too happy with it, got to it with I thinks a long skinny bendable material brush, maybe soaked in metho. Probably the steel backing plate is dirty, as well as the glass.

Years ago a car I got high mileage out of, here's how I used to clean the engine inside. When you've had a ride, the oil is warm, and you're about to do an oil change, pour half a litre of diesel in the oil, let it idle for five minutes, then dump the oil.

[daveson]

Photo
Just noticed yours is a k75, probably not much different. Just noticed I misunderstood the oil leak as from the sight glass, but it's from the weep hole. You might be lucky with high mileage oil.

[Motorhobo]

Wow, thanks for the pix! So you were able to get it relatively clean with this method, that is, you could see the oil level in the glass afterwards?

[daveson]

It was half OK, but yes I could then see the oil level, although riding improved it even more. My brick sat for at least three years before I got it, and even then I thinks it was used rarely before that, so a bit sludgy.

If it's cold up your neck of the woods, and if your daily trips are short, that might be making it worse.

Ah Nah, maybe don't do a diesel mix If your brick already uses a lot of oil.
Next oil change try spraying through the backing plate holes, with something not too aggressive to plastic.