Author Topic: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!  (Read 20311 times)

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2017, 11:00:13 AM »
It would be really nice if the cockholsters in Munich had a mechanism for obtaining the tooling for obsolete brick parts. 

If I could get their molds I could make the injection molded parts like RS turn signal lenses and mirror pods.  I know people who make a very nice living making replacement parts for classic cars with obsolete OEM tooling.  Would love to get into that business for bikes, but don't know how to get around the language and distance issues.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Martin

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2017, 04:58:10 PM »
Gryph I very much doubt BMW would ever release obsolete tooling to anyone, no matter how much they were offered.  However if you slightly changed the shape and design of the mirrors and lenses you might get away with it. I know in OZ you could get non OEM headlights and lenses for heaps of very current model cars. They were a custom replacement and changed the look of the cars. Do you know any patent lawyers?  :dunno
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2017, 12:35:40 AM »
Most auto manufacturers and their parts suppliers get rid of obsolete tooling by selling it for the scrap value of the steel, literally pennies on the dollar.  Usually, there is some repair that needs to be done, but it isn't too hard to get it working.  The tooling/molds for something like RS turn signals can be the major cost in reproducing them. 

For example, a mold to make the two lenses for RS turn signals may cost up to $10-12,000, where the old mold might be purchased as scrap for as little as $30.  Amortization of the mold cost would  be a very major part of reproduction lenses if starting with a new tool, and it's very likely that there would never be enough sold to justify it.

I used to deal with a company that did exactly what I am talking about; buying old tooling, refurbishing it and nursing it along to make parts.  They had accumulated a catalog of hundreds of parts that they sold to classic car restorers.  The owner started in his garage and when I knew him had about 50 people making parts in his factory in Central New York.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Martin

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2017, 02:56:12 AM »
Surely we must have a inmate in the Fatherland who can do the negotiations for you. Could be the start of a whole cottage industry. K75s front lenses are becoming thin on the ground, I am chasing a couple for spares. Mainly the RH one due the Bricks predilection for going down on that side.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2017, 08:56:25 AM »
I think MotorHobo has mentioned that there is a group of K bike owners in the Fatherland who are doing just that.  They are in the right place, and speak the right language.  We can only hope that their efforts prove fruitful.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Motorhobo

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2017, 10:11:55 AM »
According to the Flying Brick threads I'm following, there are legal issues with obtaining the original molds. Also, materials are an issue since the German inspection standards are very stringent and only approved materials can be used for lenses. The path being followed, I think, is one of 3D modelling the part then either 3D printing or finding an Asian producer who will make a low-count run.

For the K75, I think someone will most probably jump in for an aftermarket replacement lens in a pinch. But the K100 RS -- still no resolution, just a very long thread with lots of brainstorming.

BTW, are we talking about the mirrors or the turn signal lenses? The German thread I'm following deals with the turn signal lenses. Mirrors are a separate issue that noone seems to be talking about there.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 193k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2017, 01:21:27 PM »
The only legal issues I can see would be getting bureaucratic approval for the operation of the lens.  The DOT requires specific performance values for light pattern, light intensity, color, and reflex.  Getting approval can be a pain in the ass since you would be dealing with bureaucrats who's function in life is to be assholes.

As far as meeting specs, it would be easier if they were molded with the original tooling.  Material isn't hard as most material suppliers have resins that meet specs for color and optical properties.  The only problem might be in setting up the quality auditing stuff to test the lenses as they are produced.  Dark tunnels, calibrated light sources and sensors would be needed to test performance.  Again, these might be available with the tooling as scrap. 

What does the BMW supply chain look like?  Are the lenses produced by an outside vendor?  Does BMW even own the tooling?  If BMW has no interest in purchasing additional production, would they be willing to release the vendor to produce parts for the aftermarket?  I know that domestic auto makers outsource parts that require specific expertise rather than try to compete with companies that can do a better job at lower cost.  Look at all the Bosch stuff that BMW uses.

I am not sure that 3D printing is a viable process to make lenses.  A lot of the optical properties of a lens are dependent on the density and internal stresses of the plastic material in the final molded part.  3D printing probably results in minimum molded in stress, but how can density be controlled?  Also, are there any 3D resins that have the required color and clarity?  I suppose that there are acrylic resins adapted to the 3D process, but have they been tinted to the approved color? 

Last spring I had contacted a laser measuring company for a quote to develop a data file for printing RS lenses.  The price was estimated to be in the $8-10k range per lens.  Amortization over a 5 year period would probably add about $20 to each lens.  Add in costs for material, production and distribution, and you have an expensive piece of plastic. 
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline BlitzenGruv

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  • My first BMW. Been riding old British forever..
Re: BMW OEM pricing crosses the line from absurd to no f**king way dude!
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2017, 06:25:35 AM »
My only experience with plastic forming was as a third-party QC inspector. Volkswagen in Chattanooga buys door handles from a supplier just up the road from me. They were unhappy with the flash left from the molding process. The factory had a bunch of folks sitting around with razor knives trimming the flash.
VW really would have preferred that the supplier invest in new tooling, at a projected cost of $60K. Have to make a lot of door handles to recoup that investment.

I suppose the main reason we can still get TS lenses for 45 year-old British bikes is that they all use the same lens, all makes, all models. Even Lucas has started making them again.
  • Crossville, TN
  • '92 K100rs, 16v, '71 BSA Lightning, '72 Triumph Bonneville, '72 Triumph Trident
You say I'm schizophrenic, but I don't believe we are.

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