Author Topic: 1985 K100 RT That didn't run...does now with issues!  (Read 33851 times)

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2017, 10:35:33 PM »
Good news, I have a battery tender and a battery charger to charge the battery before and after attempting to start it. I'll probably get it back together this week and maybe be ready to fire it up Saturday some time.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2017, 09:46:48 PM »
The list hopefully getting shorter, spark plugs have been replaced, the tank is reassembled and ready for fuel. I haven't decided if I'm going to add fuel,and try and start it or check value clearance. The spark plugs I removed all looked the same, which was a good thing IMO. The gap ranged from .070 to .080 on the plugs I removed, whereas the gap should have been .060 to .070. The weekend is coming, so more wrenching to come.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2017, 10:23:40 PM »
I was able to check valve clearances this weekend, the exhaust valve on the third cylinder from the front had an exhaust valve that was a little more snug than I had hoped. I was able to get the feeler gauge in, but it was tight.
I removed the new spark plugs to apply some anti sieze, and noticed the new plugs had oil on the threads... Is this a problem? I hadn't even tried to start the bike yet. I wondering where the oil is coming from...I read the repair manual and it suggests it may be loose rings or valve seat issues..thoughts?


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2017, 09:16:12 AM »
Finally back in the shop, working on the Brick. I was able to install the battery, add some gas, try to start it. Upon hitting the starter button fuel started spraying out of fuel line at the end of the fuel rail and leaked out of the line from the tank to the fuel rail. Tightened them up, choked the bike, but now fire... The mystery continues
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 4225
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2017, 09:59:39 AM »
OK, you have the starter and fuel pump working.  Next is to find out if you have fuel and spark in the cylinder. 

Easiest thing to do is put a clean, dry plug in and crank the engine a bit.  Then pull the plug and take a look at it.  Is it wet?  Then stick the plug into the plug wire connector and crank the engine again.  Did you see a nice blue spark? 

One other thing.  Do your new spark plugs have a big terminal for the connector or do they have a threaded stud?  The threaded stud won't work with the stock plug wires with the big metal caps.  If you bought NGK plugs, I know that they don't have the correct terminal.

Last, have you you cleaned the injectors or checked how the work?  Have you put any Techron in the tank?  If the bike's 35,000 miles is accurate, it is possible that is has been idle for a fairly long time.  Have you checked the tire dates?  In any event, I would expect that you will need to pull the injectors and run some injector cleaner through them.  There are good videos on YouTube that show how to do it.  All it takes is a spray can of cleaner, some tubing, and a 9v battery with a couple alligator test leads.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too

Offline Laitch

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6088
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2017, 06:49:17 AM »
I was able to check valve clearances this weekend, the exhaust valve on the third cylinder from the front had an exhaust valve that was a little more snug than I had hoped. I was able to get the feeler gauge in, but it was tight.
A feeler gauge that needs some force behind it to get it inserted indicates a tight valve setting if your gauge was on the upper end of the range. Exhaust valves should be set on the looser end of their range.

Did you check the gaps on your new plugs? Did you check that they were connected to the correct coil?
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75T 68,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2017, 08:11:58 AM »
A feeler gauge that needs some force behind it to get it inserted indicates a tight valve setting if your gauge was on the upper end of the range. Exhaust valves should be set on the looser end of their range.

Did you check the gaps on your new plugs? Did you check that they were connected to the correct coil?


I rechecked exhaust valve 3 a second time before reassembly and was more comfortable with the measurement the second time.


I did measure the gap on the new plugs before installation and I checked the gap on the old plugs after extraction. I didn't check to see if the wires were connected to the correct cylinder but I changed the plugs one at a time not to mix up which wire went to which cylinder.


Our basement remodel project took my extra time fir the Brick this weekend,,. Hopefully I can get back to it next weekend if not before.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Offline Laitch

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6088
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2017, 09:42:01 AM »
I didn't check to see if the wires were connected to the correct cylinder but I changed the plugs one at a time not to mix up which wire went to which cylinder.
I shouldn't need to point out to you that this is a non-runner, but I will anyway because that's what you've named it. They could have been misplaced to begin with.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75T 68,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 4225
Re: 1985 K100 RT Non Runner to a Runner...I hope
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2017, 05:20:06 PM »
+1 on Laitch's comment.  There have been several owners here who have mixed up the wires. 

If you look at the coils closely you should see that they are marked as to which cylinders they are for.  The OEM wires are also marked as to part number and which cylinder they are for.

Some of the wires are folded back, and quite a bit longer than the wires for cylinders further away from the coils.  It's easy to get confused.

I doubt that the wires are the reason for non start.  Normally the engine will start, but it only runs on two cylinders, with the other two either not firing or misfiring badly.

BTW, I don't want to be a nag, but have you checked the new spark plug terminals?  Have you checked for gas on the tip of the plug and spark?
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2017, 07:06:08 PM »
Finally got an hour to trouble shoot my brick.


I found the spark plugs had a good blue spark when I pulled them out and hit the starter button. They appeared dry after a fair amount of cranking without starting.


I removed the fuel rail and injectors, they were dry on the bottom end, the rail had chunks of junk in it preventing fuel from getting to the injectors.


Any suggestions on cleaning the fuel rail or should it be replaced. Any other additional comments would be appreciated.


Supershooter



  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Online Martin

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 3628
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2017, 09:20:06 PM »

Soaking in vinegar or acetone for a couple of weeks might clean it up.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 4225
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2017, 02:57:54 AM »
OK, now we're getting somewhere.

Take the fuel line from the pump that goes to the rail and put it into a bottle.  A 2 liter soda bottle is good.  Turn the ignition on and hit the starter.  Do you get a nice strong flow of gas?  Is there a bunch of stuff in the gas?

+1 on soaking the rail in vinegar for a couple days.  Then blow it out with compressed air.

While the rail is soaking, you might want to clean the injectors.  YouTube has a number of good videos showing how to do it.  Basically, you get a can of spray injector cleaner, some tubing that will connect the spray can to the top of the injector and a 9v battery with some alligator clip leads to power the injector open.

There are filters in the top of the injectors that you might want to replace.  You can get them at an auto parts store for a couple bucks apiece.  Pull the old filters out by screwing a sheet metal screw into the filter and pulling it out with a pair of pliers.

Good luck.  It looks like you're getting close.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2017, 09:10:12 AM »
I used Muratic Acid and water to clean my tank, it worked very well and fast. Would there be any issues using the same solution to flush the fuel rail?


I used a multimeter to check continuity and they were all 15.7-15.8.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Offline jakgieger

  • itinerant farmer
  • ^ SuperNatural Motobricker
  • Posts: 551
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2017, 09:24:41 AM »
I used Muratic Acid and water to clean my tank, it worked very well and fast. Would there be any issues using the same solution to flush the fuel rail?

I would be hesitant to use HCl on steel.  I think the rail is steel.  I used acetone on my rail with good results...If in doubt regarding amount of corrosion, I would buy a different rail.  Gryphon has it right as well.  If your rail is that bad, injectors will need attention as well.
  • Kansas USA
  • 1989 K100rs se
"What we've got here is failure, to communicate.  Some men, you just cain't reach.  So you get what we had here last week.  Which is the way he wants it...Well, he gets it.  I don't like it any more than you men do."

Offline Laitch

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6088
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2017, 12:18:23 PM »
I would be hesitant to use HCl on steel. 
Why not use hydrofluoric acid on it and just start over?  :yes
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75T 68,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline jakgieger

  • itinerant farmer
  • ^ SuperNatural Motobricker
  • Posts: 551
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2017, 12:48:21 PM »
IMHO, I would avoid using hydrofluoric acid... :hehehe and just stick with the vinegar or acetone :dunno2: Hydrofluoric acid is a solution of hydrogen fluoride (HF) in water. It is a precursor to almost all fluorine compounds, including pharmaceuticals such as fluoxetine (Prozac), diverse materials such as PTFE (Teflon), and elemental fluorine itself. It is a colourless solution that is highly corrosive, capable of dissolving many materials, especially oxides. Its ability to dissolve glass has been known since the 17th century, even before Carl Wilhelm Scheele prepared it in large quantities in 1771.[2] Because of its high reactivity toward glass and moderate reactivity toward many metals, hydrofluoric acid is usually stored in plastic containers (although PTFE is slightly permeable to it).[3]
Hydrogen fluoride gas is an acute poison that may immediately and permanently damage lungs and the corneas of the eyes. Aqueous hydrofluoric acid is a contact-poison with the potential for deep, initially painless burns and ensuing tissue death. By interfering with body calcium metabolism, the concentrated acid may also cause systemic toxicity and eventual cardiac arrest and fatality, after contact with as little as 160 cm2 (25 square inches) of skin.
  • Kansas USA
  • 1989 K100rs se
"What we've got here is failure, to communicate.  Some men, you just cain't reach.  So you get what we had here last week.  Which is the way he wants it...Well, he gets it.  I don't like it any more than you men do."

Offline Laitch

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6088
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2017, 01:03:31 PM »
IMHO, I would avoid using hydrofluoric acid... :hehehe and just stick with the vinegar or acetone :dunno2: Hydrofluoric acid is a solution of hydrogen fluoride (HF) in water. It is a precursor to almost all fluorine compounds, including pharmaceuticals such as fluoxetine (Prozac), diverse materials such as PTFE (Teflon), and elemental fluorine itself. It is a colourless solution that is highly corrosive, capable of dissolving many materials, especially oxides. Its ability to dissolve glass has been known since the 17th century, even before Carl Wilhelm Scheele prepared it in large quantities in 1771.[2] Because of its high reactivity toward glass and moderate reactivity toward many metals, hydrofluoric acid is usually stored in plastic containers (although PTFE is slightly permeable to it).[3]
Hydrogen fluoride gas is an acute poison that may immediately and permanently damage lungs and the corneas of the eyes. Aqueous hydrofluoric acid is a contact-poison with the potential for deep, initially painless burns and ensuing tissue death. By interfering with body calcium metabolism, the concentrated acid may also cause systemic toxicity and eventual cardiac arrest and fatality, after contact with as little as 160 cm2 (25 square inches) of skin.
That's what I meant by "start over," Jack.
:giggles
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75T 68,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2017, 01:04:04 PM »
Who knew so many scientist frequented the brick page😉


I've attempted to flush the injectors with carb and injector cleaner and a 9V battery with no success, apparently the crap is deep into them also. Any tips or tricks to get them to function or should they be replaced? I didn't have any succes removing the screens, any tips for removing them? I don't want to wreck any thing along the way if I can help it.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Online Martin

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 3628
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2017, 01:10:55 PM »

To remove the screens use a self taping screw or a self drilling metal screw of the appropriate size. Screw in the fastener and pull out by attaching a pair of vice grips. You will have to buy another set of filter screens.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Laitch

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6088
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2017, 01:12:17 PM »
I've attempted to flush the injectors with carb and injector cleaner and a 9V battery with no success, apparently the crap is deep into them also.
If at first you don't succeed,
Try and try again.

Then send them to Mr. Injector for assessment and possible cleaning.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75T 68,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 4225
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2017, 01:33:36 PM »
Did you try pulling the filter screens with a sheet metal screw?  Get that screen out and get some cleaner in them and let it soak.  You might want to consider soaking the injectors for a day or two in a covered pan filled with Techron.  Every now and then pull them out and hit them with a couple shots of 9v. 

Sometimes you need to run the cleaner backwards through the injector.

Did you try to run some fuel into a bottle as I suggested in an earlier post? 

  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2017, 02:45:45 PM »
I did try a sheet metal screw, but was cautious not wreck the injector with the screw so I didn't get aggressive enough to get it, I was concerned about how deep I wanted to get into the injector so that I wouldn't wreck other internal parts.
I have them soaking in carb cleaner and will head back to the shop after lunch and work at it some more.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Online Martin

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 3628
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2017, 03:02:56 PM »

With the correct size screw you should be able to pull them out, soaking will help.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 4225
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2017, 03:24:11 PM »
How does the gas coming out of the fuel pump look?
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too

Offline Supershooter

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 186
Re: 1985 K100 RT It doesn't run...
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2017, 07:21:35 PM »
First and foremost, Thank you, for all,the help so far, this project I'd running a lot smoother than ever anticipated because of all,of you guys. Thanks


The fuel coming out of the pump/ tank looks good.


Mr Injector, has me concerned that if I send him my injectors and they are bad, it cost me $75 to throw them away and start over.


Otherewise, the injectors are soaking in my shop. I did get part of a screen out, I didn't go as I had hoped. I did hit them with 9V this afternoon again and got noting, so I checked my battery and it checked out fine.


The fuel rail is clean and ready to go again.


We'll see how the injectors turn out, I'm feeling good about the progress so far. I plan to visit the local auto parts store tomorrow to ask about local injector cleaning.


Supershooter
  • Liberty Township, O'brien County, Iowa
  • 85 K100 RT

Tags: