Author Topic: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??  (Read 8804 times)

Offline jjs1234

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 409
Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« on: April 07, 2016, 10:21:11 PM »
I'm in the process of doing some recon in my engine. This is about as far as I'm going as I'm getting the sump painted.

Anyway I removed the output shaft and saw something's that caught my eye.

First off I'd scaring on the main bearing outside. Mind you the bearing turns freely and there is no play whatsoever. But take a look at this:

And


Also there seems to be some sort of very brittle material on the outside of the circlip and it breaks almost immediately. Almost like spaghetti.



What the heck is this material? It's only present on the outside of the circlip. Or the scarring only present in one spot?

 should I replace the bearing? Should I replace the circlip? Mind you everything else in the engine looks just fine[emoji4]

Thanks morobrick wizards...

Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk

  • Northern California
  • 1984 K100
Check out my build! Complete tear-down!
Mr. Creative

Offline jjs1234

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 409
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 10:22:57 PM »
 the plastic debris Maybe the old gasket sealant unsure

Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk

  • Northern California
  • 1984 K100
Check out my build! Complete tear-down!
Mr. Creative

Offline Martin

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 4437
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 01:01:52 AM »
+1 Looks like old sealant.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline jjs1234

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 409
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 08:14:26 PM »
The dealer said it looks like corrosion so I decided not to have the bearing replaced. The other needle bearing (on the side where the output shaft meets the oil pump) will be. I feel some possible pitting inside.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk

  • Northern California
  • 1984 K100
Check out my build! Complete tear-down!
Mr. Creative

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 08:28:38 AM »
Sorry to resurrect this thread, I’m in need of help.

I had exactly the same debris, it was old sealant. In fact, I had so much sealant that during disassembly of my oil pan, when I lifted the pan off to separate from the lower crankcase half the output shaft came with it, stuck in by the sealant and snap rings!

In the end I had to cut the circlips to free the shaft. And here lies my problem. I’m struggling to determine exactly which parts are the snap rings/circlips that sit in the cases at either end of the shaft. The pictures in the exploded diagram in the Clymer indicate a complete circlip that can be used with pliers, however, my shaft was retained with the same style as your posted pictures.




Are said circlips that rest in the cases numbers 9 & 12 on the exploded diagram?

Thanks in advance
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Laitch

  • Faster than a speeding pullet
  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 10120
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 07:30:37 AM »
The pictures in the exploded diagram in the Clymer indicate a complete circlip that can be used with pliers, however, my shaft was retained with the same style as your posted pictures.
Maybe one was substituted for the other in production The parts fiche at MAX BMW indicates one supercedes the other. Have you read this page? There are some photos on it that will be clarifying. Here's a diagram from it.

  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 10:46:41 AM »
Maybe one was substituted for the other in production The parts fiche at MAX BMW indicates one supercedes the other. Have you read this page? There are some photos on it that will be clarifying. Here's a diagram from it.



Hi Laitch, That’s some very interesting reading, thanks for the information! This would indicate to me that I need #17 in the diagram you posted as it is the earlier ring. I believe that’s part number 11211461755 however both yield no results on my local Motorworks or Motobins websites. Google revealed that part number to be the latter design conical spring clip. Where would you recommend I purchase?
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Laitch

  • Faster than a speeding pullet
  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 10120
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 11:34:09 AM »
Where would you recommend I purchase?
It's a relatively inexpensive part over here. Click Engine then the Output Shaft diagram here to get the price list, if this is the model you're rehabilitating.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 03:54:53 PM »
It's a relatively inexpensive part over here. Click Engine then the Output Shaft diagram here to get the price list, if this is the model you're rehabilitating.

How good is max BMW! I’ve learned something fantastic today, Laitch, thanks for your help. Not so fantastic is that Max Bmw apparently want $74.58 for shipping that extremely heavy and oversized load 0.02lb 55mm clip to the UK...

  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Laitch

  • Faster than a speeding pullet
  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 10120
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 04:32:17 PM »
How good is max BMW! I’ve learned something fantastic today, Laitch, thanks for your help. Not so fantastic is that Max Bmw apparently want $74.58 for shipping that extremely heavy and oversized load 0.02lb 55mm clip to the UK...
The extra cost is for the armed escort because the package is so small and its contents so desirable. Can't you get it cheaper straight from the source?
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 04:46:42 PM »
The extra cost is for the armed escort because the package is so small and its contents so desirable. Can't you get it cheaper straight from the source?

Haha!  :hehehe

Turns out Max BMW was quite competitive anyway. I’ve just ordered it from the Bring More Wallet stealer-ship in the UK. Once they were finished adding vat and punishing me for not buying 3000 of them, the total came to $29.21 (£20.90)

I got my pants pulled down. Nothing stopping me now though I guess  :yes
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6617
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 01:45:12 AM »
How quick do you need that spring?  One of us here in the states could buy it and mail it to you in a letter.  I would figure a week to get it from the dealer and another week or so to get it to you.  If I roll it into a larger order, the shipping should be negligible and only from here to Scotland.  I would guess the total cost might be about $10-12 U.S.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2018, 03:04:38 AM »
How quick do you need that spring?  One of us here in the states could buy it and mail it to you in a letter.  I would figure a week to get it from the dealer and another week or so to get it to you.  If I roll it into a larger order, the shipping should be negligible and only from here to Scotland.  I would guess the total cost might be about $10-12 U.S.

Hi Gryph, thanks very much for that fantastic offer. I have actually already bought the part as I need it for this Monday coming, I’m home from this hitch then and have a full 5 free days to wrench so I intended having the running gear boxed in, frame on, front end in and potentially rolling in this time so needed the part pretty ricky tick. Probably really optimistic  :yes 

Thanks again though!  :2thumbup:
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Laitch

  • Faster than a speeding pullet
  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 10120
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 10:01:21 AM »
. . . I’m home from this hitch  . . .
Are you involved in serial marriage? How's it going?
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 07:20:05 PM »
Are you involved in serial marriage? How's it going?

 :clap: Worse. Oil & Gas.
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2018, 05:38:32 AM »
So, that was the wrong part. That was the circlip for the physical output shaft and not the circlip that rides between the bearings and the cases to control float.








This is the one for the rear of the shaft













HELP!







  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Inge K.

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1451
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 06:41:30 AM »
That circlip is included when you buy a new bearing.
And what you found in the grove was more probably Loctite (or similar) and not sealant, as BMW
recommends that circlip and bearing is glued when mounting.
  • Norway

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 12:16:37 PM »
That circlip is included when you buy a new bearing.
And what you found in the grove was more probably Loctite (or similar) and not sealant, as BMW
recommends that circlip and bearing is glued when mounting.

Hi Inge, thanks for the information, you’re absolutley correct. That’s a shame as there is nothing wrong with the current bearing, I just need the clip but it appears to purchase this you have to buy the whole bearing as you say.

I was just at my local stealership parts department and he said the same as yourself, although the exploded diagram he gave me does not look like the output shaft:


That leads me to believe the part numbers on his quote below may be incorrect too:



Either way, looks like I’m buying a grooved bearig.



  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Inge K.

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1451
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 05:49:12 PM »
, although the exploded diagram he gave me does not look like the output shaft:

It's a output shaft allright............but from the gearbox, and not the engine.
These bearings is considerably smaller than the one on the engine.
  • Norway

Offline johnny

  • TrailBrakingThrottleWhacker
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 7650
  • Whacking...n...Chopping Sliding...n...High Siding
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 08:38:26 PM »
greetings...

when i buy oem i figger out the oem part numbers in advance of talking to them because dealers make no mistakes... they are 100% pro parts and 100% pro service... seriously... dealers are gawds...

j o
  • :johnny i parks my 96 eleven hundert rs motobrick in dodge county cheezconsin  :johnny

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 03:02:08 AM »
It's a output shaft allright............but from the gearbox, and not the engine.
These bearings is considerably smaller than the one on the engine.

greetings...

when i buy oem i figger out the oem part numbers in advance of talking to them because dealers make no mistakes... they are 100% pro parts and 100% pro service... seriously... dealers are gawds...

j o

The worst of it was, I had the actual output shaft with me for reference, when I highlighted that his exploded diagram doesn’t match he told me the gears I see are “in here” pointing at the absorber and absorber gear wheel, I explained that was the absorber where there drive rubbers sit and he just shut me down by passing me his incorrect quote, and telling me “that’s the part you need, can I help with anything else?”

From the vast sources of information within the reply’s to this thread I have established the part I need is: 11 21 1 460 472 GROOVED BALL BEARING - 80X50X16 (to 12/85) Hopefully this is correct this time. Sucks I have to buy the whole bearing to obtain just a circlip but it appears this is the case.

  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Inge K.

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1451
  • Norway

Offline Inge K.

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1451
  • Norway

Offline DJEwen

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 392
Re: Output shaft circlips- plastic debris??
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 01:49:52 AM »
This is what you need I'll guess:

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p20115019/Major-Branded-SP80-Snap-Ring-to-Suit-80mm-Outside-Diameter-of-Bearing/product_info.html

Thanks Inge, I purchased it from my local Motorworks.co.uk as they had it in stock, it arrives today.
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Tags: