Author Topic: "Harley-Davidson's reputation as an 'old, white-guy brand' may be its downfall" (Read 40336 times)

jakgieger · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:23:40 PM »

Quote from: The Mighty Gryphon on October 29, 2015, 12:39:28 PM

Love that picture. Totally captures what motorcycles do for me.

Kansas, what a wonderful place to own a bike. Last spring I had the pleasure to have my 75RT doing 110mph for about 5 miles on a two lane in west Kansas. I was the only sign of human life I could see in any direction at the time.

Yeah, I look around in Kansas and see a lot of life

...when I go to West Texas, not a lot of life, kinda like the opening of "No Country For Old Men".

I think the core of the issue for HD, like my cousin and neighbors (HD owners), if you have a bike to ride once a year, in a parade, or trailer it to Sturgis, you do not pass the connection on to your kids. Today's kids are not watching movies with a Harley in them like we did growng up. BTW, my father in law was a HD man. On our first vacation, he and his friends were joking about BMW rider's and their GPS (2003). I asked them, What is the difference between a Hoover vacuum and an HD???, Position of the dirtbag. It got real quiet, real quick :nono

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:37:33 PM »

It sure does seem like the Harley riders are a bit stuck up. When I've parked my K in motorcycle parking areas at places like an air show it seems like they wouldn't give you the time of day if asked. You can have nice chats with the Japanese cruiser riders though.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:42:19 PM »

Quote from: Snowman on October 30, 2015, 04:33:43 PM

I think the way HD has focused on its 'lifestyle' marketing is hurting them more. I have spoken to many non HD owners and some would contemplate buying a HD if it wasn't for the stupid stigma of what comes with one. The pirate ship is going down, slowly but it is going.

I totally agree. A few years ago I almost bought a beautiful custom 1979 Sportster, but realized what a fool I would look like in my riding gear, and there was no way I was going to ride in traffic wearing nothing more than jeans and a sleeveless denim jacket.

BTW The "lifestyle" isn't just a Hardley thing. It's really a V-twin thing, with Road Stars, Vulcans, etc.

When someone asks me why I ride a BMW I just smile and say it's probably because I don't have enough testosterone to ride a V-twin...or an old Buick.

ts888 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:45:31 PM »

Although I find it easy to pick on the Harleysexuals, I try to stick to a "bikers are bikers" attitude. I wave at every bike I see, whether it's oncoming or one I'm passing -- which is usually a Harley or a big tourer poking along in the right lane.

At least here in the PNW, there seems to be a strong contingent of younger people on sportbikes and 30-50 YO guys on dual sports. When it comes to snobbiness, the DS guys seem to carry that baton more often than HD people.

FWIW, I'm 55 going on 25, and usually the rabbit leading the hounds.

Scud · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2015, 06:21:53 PM »

Many stereotypes exist for a reason, but they don't apply to everybody. Every group has it's snobs and aficionados.

I like my big V-Twin Moto Guzzis. I pulled up recently to a group of Harley guys and said "Hey, your engines are rotated the wrong way in your frames. (that's the BS line that a lot of people say about Moto Guzzis if they are used to seeing inline V-twins). One Harley guy responds immediately - "Yeah, that's cuz Harley is too dumb to mount the engine that way, and we're always overheating the rear cylinder."

We had a good laugh and I complimented him on the lovely swim-step on his boat. (er... I mean the rear rack on his bike.) It was a lovely rack, chrome and teak, would have looked right at home on a ski-boat. He says: "Yeah, now that you mention it, it does look like a swim step. I made that myself." Good bloke, and a proper motorcyclist.

Have fun out there, boys. :hehehe

drut · « **Reply #30 on:** October 30, 2015, 07:00:36 PM »

"I try to stick to a "bikers are bikers" attitude. I wave at every bike I see, whether it's oncoming or one I'm passing -"

That I am more than comfortable with!

TrueAce · « **Reply #31 on:** October 30, 2015, 10:04:09 PM »

HD has for some time now earned around 40% of net income from their "life-style" clothing and accessories.....for people who want to be recognized as HD fans, a ratio to bike sales which no other manufacturer has. The strange connection between apparel and fans would suggest more people want to look HD than want to own HD motorcycles. I agree with too much model proliferation and "factory" customization, points made by others. Additionally, the less than customer friendly HD dealer staff coupled with super expensive parts and service charges (yes, more than BMW, Ducati, you name it) serve to drive folks away from ownership. Can they build a market share with a new line of 750's? I seriously doubt it. With wages virtually flat since 2000, working folks cannot afford to buy over-priced, antiquated technology, costly maintenance HD motorcycles......and they are no fun to ride or tour. I think somebody on this forum stated it well..... " 98% of Harleys are still on the road...........only 2% made it home to the garage".

Scud · « **Reply #32 on:** October 31, 2015, 12:03:56 AM »

Quote from: TrueAce on October 30, 2015, 10:04:09 PM

I think somebody on this forum stated it well..... " 98% of Harleys are still on the road...........only 2% made it home to the garage".

That's funny. My favorite Harley joke is: What to do Harley's and Golden Retrievers have in common? --- They both like to ride in the back of pickup trucks.

That used to be funny because of reliability problems, but not so true anymore. Now it's funny because so many Harley's get trucked or trailered places (instead of being ridden there).

Scott_ · « **Reply #33 on:** October 31, 2015, 09:29:10 AM »

A few years ago I got the opportunity to ride a brand new HD right off the showroom floor and put the 1st 100 miles on it.....
Needless to say, I wasn't "lifestyle" riding it.....

There's a little story behind the "why" did my buddy ask me to ride it for him, I still didn't understand his reasoning, but I realized it probably would be my only chance to ride one brand new..... :2thumbup:
Personally would I own one, probably not. It was nice though to be able to flat foot it so easily compared to my 1100's.

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #34 on:** October 31, 2015, 10:48:18 AM »

They seem to all have Dunlop 404's...I think they're labeled as 402's since they're Harley branded but the tread is the same...decent tires if you don't like cornering

billday · « **Reply #35 on:** October 31, 2015, 02:33:59 PM »

Quote from: F14CRAZY on October 31, 2015, 10:48:18 AM

decent tires if you don't like cornering

Decent tires if you don't mind them cracking long before the tread's worn out.

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #36 on:** October 31, 2015, 04:24:13 PM »

Quote from: billday on October 31, 2015, 02:33:59 PM

Quote from: F14CRAZY on October 31, 2015, 10:48:18 AM
decent tires if you don't like cornering

Lol I don't know why I left that out. Not looking back since I switched to Shinkos

Decent tires if you don't mind them cracking long before the tread's worn out.

kris · « **Reply #37 on:** November 05, 2015, 07:56:52 AM »

Geez, looking at those Cuban Harley photos there is no denying that old Harleys have a lot of cool going on. Wow....I know a couple of guys who own them. Yup, older, fairly well-heeled Causcasians. They love them. Not my cup of tea, although I have never ridden one. I prefer the upright/ slightly forward-leaning riding stance. We should all be careful not to get too high on whatever brand we ride. I am sure the riding experience is what bonds us all. As for younger people not riding Harleys that could be. Bikes are still a secondary form of transportation here in Ontario (for 99 per cent of us - the odd hardcore guy rides through the winter...Ural with sidecar). New bikes aren't cheap and many younger guys seem to have no idea as to how to fix stuff anymore....so picking up a beater is out of the question. Hopefully they'll get there.

And as for bikers being bad-ass....I guess if you're an outlaw biker but the rest of us ride for fun or transportation.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #38 on:** November 05, 2015, 09:09:33 AM »

Quote from: kris on November 05, 2015, 07:56:52 AM

And as for bikers being bad-ass....I guess if you're an outlaw biker but the rest of us ride for fun or transportation.

Speaking of bad-ass, I'm sure most of us have seen that television ad for the CanAm Spyder with the shots of the guy riding it trying to look bad-ass or something, but mostly something. Made we cringe. Bad-ass can only be done on H-D or vintage Brit.

beemrdon · « **Reply #39 on:** November 29, 2015, 02:32:32 PM »

Maybe one of our future presidents will bail them out , if necessary, like Reagan did because they were on the verge of going belly-up back then.
If they can't or won't make anything other than cruisers, I say - let 'em go.

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #40 on:** November 29, 2015, 02:47:20 PM »

Quote from: beemrdon on November 29, 2015, 02:32:32 PM

Maybe one of our future presidents will bail them out , if necessary, like Reagan did because they were on the verge of going belly-up back then.
If they can't or won't make anything other that cruisers, I say - let 'em go.

well they did have Buell but...I guess sportbikes with Harley engines weren't that appealing

beemrdon · « **Reply #41 on:** November 29, 2015, 02:56:21 PM »

My brother-in-law had a Buell but traded it in for a sportster. POS.

rbm · « **Reply #42 on:** November 29, 2015, 03:04:12 PM »

What card-carying sports bike rider wants a bike that goes "potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, ..." :hehehe

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #43 on:** November 29, 2015, 03:08:19 PM »

Quote from: rbm on November 29, 2015, 03:04:12 PM

What card-carying sports bike rider wants a bike that goes "potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, potatoe, ..." :hehehe

not many, evidently

darthbane71 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 29, 2015, 06:40:03 PM »

I'm 22 and I love my BMW. It may not look like a new bike, but it rides perfectly for me. In fact I'm considering a bmw for my next bike. Might get rid of my yzf600r and get a k1200rs (at least thats my thoughts so far). However I also love my 600cc sportbike, which I feel is more of a "young person's motorcycle." But I feel that people my age don't ride as much as some of my older friends. I can't get enough of motorcycles. The only thing stopping me from being a mechanic is that I don't want to ruin my favorite hobby: working on my bikes. So I ended up being a Chef lol.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #45 on:** November 29, 2015, 08:06:28 PM »

Quote from: darthbane71 on November 29, 2015, 06:40:03 PM

I can't get enough of motorcycles. The only thing stopping me from being a mechanic is that I don't want to ruin my favorite hobby: working on my bikes. So I ended up being a Chef lol.

Did that ruin your desire to eat? I hear you, I have had sailboats for 30 years. When I retired I got a seasonal job working in the boatyard where I keep mine. It's been 4 years now since the last time I had the sails up on my own boat.

darthbane71 · « **Reply #46 on:** November 29, 2015, 09:38:00 PM »

Lol sometimes it does ruin my desire to eat. But yes, that's why I did it. I can tolerate not wanting to cook when I get home from work, but I want to be able to work on my bikes.

Martin · « **Reply #47 on:** November 29, 2015, 10:48:31 PM »

:clap:Quite a few years ago I turned up at work on my K75. One of my fellow workers (HD Fatboy rider) came up to me and asked me why BMW made motorcycles.I said I didn't know.He then stated so the gay guys had something to ride, I didn't loose my cool.I just asked him to to tell me three good things about his Harley.First thing he said was it looked good, I said that was debatable but I would him him that.Second thing was it sounded good, I said again debatable but I would give him that as well.Then he looked perplext ,so I asked him the following questions, for the size of the engine does it go any good,he said not really.I then asked if it handled well ,again the answer no not really.Is it comfortable,no not really.By this time the group around us was starting to chuckle.I said all right then give me the third thing .He looked confused for a while then just stormed off.About three months later he again approached me. He stated he was selling the Fatboy and could I help him look for a BMW.He must of changed sexual orientatation.
Regards Martin

Kyle10 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 30, 2015, 05:33:28 PM »

Bear in mind HD's "Project LiveWire", which is looking more and more like an eventuality (instead of an interest-generating PR stunt). Clearly, they realize the 'next big thing' in biking is electric propulsion and they're busy applying for patents left and right, revealing that they've been very busy in the R&D departments.

Before we raise the bugles and hoist the casket, remember that HD sells more bikes quarterly than most other manufacturers move in a year. As well, their 'bobber' lineup continues to proliferate and its aimed squarely at the beards n flannels crowd. But a sales dip, even a sales decline doesn't change the fact that HD's bread and butter continues to be the post-50's crowd. More moneyed, more time on their hands and no kids. Just get them onto the sales floor; from there HD wows and sells them with one of the best dealer networks in existence and one of the most successfully crafted brands in marketing history.

As for BMW, they have been reaching deeply into the pre-50's market for some time now. Their lineup has never been more exciting, with newer, affordable (and smaller cc) models forthcoming they're gunning for much the same thing as Harley-Davidson: brand indoctrination and brand loyalty.

Motorcycles are an interesting product, really. Totally 'unnecessary'*, they are for most people a hobby, a diversion - a lifestyle. The marketing of them, therefore, continues to prove fascinating.

*Asia, et al, notwithstanding where people rely on cheap, reliable bikes as their primary means of transportation.

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #49 on:** November 30, 2015, 05:43:20 PM »

Quote from: Kyle10 on November 30, 2015, 05:33:28 PM

Bear in mind HD's "Project LiveWire", which is looking more and more like an eventuality (instead of an interest-generating PR stunt). Clearly, they realize the 'next big thing' in biking is electric propulsion and they're busy applying for patents left and right, revealing that they've been very busy in the R&D departments.

Before we raise the bugles and hoist the casket, remember that HD sells more bikes quarterly than most other manufacturers move in a year. As well, their 'bobber' lineup continues to proliferate and its aimed squarely at the beards n flannels crowd. But a sales dip, even a sales decline doesn't change the fact that HD's bread and butter continues to be the post-50's crowd. More moneyed, more time on their hands and no kids. Just get them onto the sales floor; from there HD wows and sells them with one of the best dealer networks in existence and one of the most successfully crafted brands in marketing history.

As for BMW, they have been reaching deeply into the pre-50's market for some time now. Their lineup has never been more exciting, with newer, affordable (and smaller cc) models forthcoming they're gunning for much the same thing as Harley-Davidson: brand indoctrination and brand loyalty.

Motorcycles are an interesting product, really. Totally 'unnecessary'*, they are for most people a hobby, a diversion - a lifestyle. The marketing of them, therefore, continues to prove fascinating.

*Asia, et al, notwithstanding where people rely on cheap, reliable bikes as their primary means of transportation.

Are they gonna come with amplified loudspeakers to reproduce the "potato" sound?

I can't F-ing stand the ones with pipes you hear coming from a mile behind and for a mile after they pass (or you pass them, more than likely), when you have a full face helmet, earplugs, and music playing through your intercom

News:

Author Topic: "Harley-Davidson's reputation as an 'old, white-guy brand' may be its downfall" (Read 40336 times)