"Harley-Davidson's reputation as an 'old, white-guy brand' may be its downfall"

[billday]

Article about Harley-Davidson from the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/24/harley-davidson-brand-revenue-loss-easy-rider-image

They say Harley sales are way off and that the company has boxed itself in by focusing on a shrinking demographic, making too many bikes, and selling "customs" that look like all the other "customs."

Speaking as an old white guy, I will say this about Harley. I've seen few that I'd want to ride, let alone own, but when I'm traveling on my K, I see far more Harleys than any other motorcycle, and I know that if I had a problem, one of them would stop to help me out.

[F14CRAZY]

Honestly aside from myself (28, Asian-American) I haven't seen anyone other than an old white guy piloting a BMW.

Perhaps HD is regretting canning Buell. Then again I don't see why anyone, especially a young person, would believe in a Harley engine being suitable for a sportbike.

[Tuco]

I wonder what the average of a motorcyclist is these days. Are younger people coming into the sport? Maybe the whole sport is turning gray?

[herseyb]

I wonder that too.  I just turned 33 and I feel like not many of my peers are into motobikes.  Many of my motorcycle friends have at least around 15 years on me.

My faux-uncle screwball started teaching at the local JuCo, and says that in today's world having a harley - or any bike - doesn't make you a badass anymore.

Too many retiring lawyers getting into them, I guess.  That said, he's right about his little R bike and his beautiful Guzzi being timeless classics.

[WayneDW]

Yes, but I think BMW needs to be more worried about that than Harley.  When I use to hang out at the BMWMOA site that was a common discussion about the aging demographic of the typical BMW rider. 
I know I'm guilty of getting older every year.  But it's better than the alternative.

[Scott_]

Something that I have noticed even in my workplace, the "younger sportbike" riders(mid-late 20's) are starting to trade their bikes for wives and children.............. or at least parking them and waiting to sell.

[F14CRAZY]

BMW has a very diverse lineup though compared to HD. R Nine T for the cafe racer crowd, S1000RR for sport bikers, light, medium and heavy enduro bikes, a new adventure touring bike, roadsters, luxury touring, sport touring, sport-sport touring, and even scooters

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I can only speak for myself, but it took me about 40+ years to finally come to understand and appreciate the BMW "thing".  I used to think of them as staid, old fashioned machines back when I was in my teens and twenties.   Now that I'm a lot older, I appreciate the ergonomics and the ability to easily do a lot of miles in a short period of time.  To me these are the BMW strong points, and they are not  that important to younger riders who are in better shape and do most of their riding in short runs.

F14Crazy,  What do you consider a light enduro bike?  In the Northeast I would say it has to be well under 200 lbs, closer to 185.  I don't think BMW has anything that light.  IMO all they have are big heavy ISDT type machines made for wide, fast dry trails, not the snaking through trees and gullies kind of stuff I am used to.

[drut]

"I wonder what the average of a motorcyclist is these days. Are younger people coming into the sport? Maybe the whole sport is turning gray? "

Certainly the average age of motorcyclists here in the UK appears to have risen during my lifetime.Still see youngsters(& middle aged)taking training but if I stop at a cafe the majority of riders are 50+,I don't think the graded test process/cost helps http://www.passyourbiketest.co.uk/content/motorcycle-tests/

[F14CRAZY]

I can only speak for myself, but it took me about 40+ years to finally come to understand and appreciate the BMW "thing".  I used to think of them as staid, old fashioned machines back when I was in my teens and twenties.   Now that I'm a lot older, I appreciate the ergonomics and the ability to easily do a lot of miles in a short period of time.  To me these are the BMW strong points, and they are not  that important to younger riders who are in better shape and do most of their riding in short runs.

F14Crazy,  What do you consider a light enduro bike?  In the Northeast I would say it has to be well under 200 lbs, closer to 185.  I don't think BMW has anything that light.  IMO all they have are big heavy ISDT type machines made for wide, fast dry trails, not the snaking through trees and gullies kind of stuff I am used to.

Well "light" is a relative term with BMWs...a G650GS is lighter than an R1200GS tho.

I'm disappointed they dropped the G450X...not under 200 lbs but closer

[Tuco]

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812035.pdf. Interesting reading, most recent info I could find.

[F14CRAZY]

I can't remember the specifics or find an article at the moment but I read a while back that the military started requiring endorsements for personnel with motorcycles as there were more deaths from motorcycle accidents than from military operations

[Tuco]

I put the wrong report up. I read another report where the median age of motorcyclist is in the 40's I think.

[koapono]

retired military here (Go Army!).
Dept of Defense (DOD) requires all active duty motorcyclists to have completed an authorized motorcycle safety course in order for them to ride on a DOD installation, regardless of service affiliation. In addition to that each service imposes other "safety" measures: reflective clothing, over the ankle boots, eye protection, gloves and DOT approved helmets. The commander of each facility is free to put his/her own spin on these regulations also and may require advanced safety courses (experienced rider course or similar), re-certification, refresher training, etc, etc.
Most of the time you are just waved through the gate if dressed properly, once in a while you'll be stopped for a spot check by a safety-nazi.
It's not unusual to see the "life-style" riders stopped before gate stashing their "beanie helmets" and putting on their required safety gear so they can enter installation.
all told, things are pretty smooth until there's a motorcycle related injury/death, then the entire chain-of-command starts running around with their hair on fire because they have to report to "higher"  that the rider was fully certified and in compliance with local policy. this is usually followed by remedial training for all riders, increased screenings for proper endorsements, etc, etc and so the cycle continues.
The injured soldier is usually a young male with little riding experience that just bought a 150HP two-wheeler a week ago, probably not much different than civilian statistics.
those who have served/are serving will laugh aloud at the knee-jerk reactions that follow an incident.
i cannot attest to ratio of injuries/deaths to riders as compared to other military operations.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Kaopono, wow, things have changed.  I was In an Air Defense Artillery Battery in Ft. Bliss in the early 70's.  There were a couple of us with dirt bikes in the unit, and our battery commander used to invite us to ride our bikes out to the desert when the battery went out for training exercises.   We mainly did courier stuff and occasional forward observer duty.  It was a lot more fun that driving deuce-and-a-trucks, and you may know how much fun that can be.  There were rumors that there were guys who had been issued Husqvarnas up at Fort Hood, and we were hoping that we'd get some too.

[jakgieger]

A lot of good points here...Yes, I traded my bike for a wife in my 20's .  At the time it was a good trade.  Now that the farm is stable, we are done creating kids, my life insurance covers financial concerns, and my kids can "chore"...once again I can enjoy a motorcycle!  The greater point here is that most likely the reason I ride a bike is that my father owned a bike (BSA).  Following this line, my two sons have been exposed to motorcycles, and like looking at s1000rr's.  It's an age thing.  Most likely, as they age they will appreciate the refinements of the K or the future versions of them.  I have classmates who ride harleys.  To me, it was always about getting from point to point quickly and reliably, thus BMW.  BMW has majorly increased the diversity of their lineup and thus will attract more riders (no single demographic).  This is a good thing.  Unfortunately, guys with nostalgia for the K are aging and someday will disappear altogether.  I bet we will have a good time meanwhile...

[herseyb]

What a great pic.  I often have both of those expressions on my face while on my k75. 

Once I get outside the beltline highway I often think to myself in my best nasa voice: "Engage jetfighter mode..."

[F14CRAZY]

I love blue and white K100RS's.

[Scud]

At 50, I guess I am officially an "old white-guy" now. AARP sent me a membership application.   :deal:   F**K that.

Maybe more of us making it to "old-guy" status than we used to. I look back at a few habits/stunts and am sort of surprised that I made it to this age.

On the Harley topic - this is a small sample for counter-point, but two young guys at my office are riding 1200 Harley Sportsters. Sadly, one of them thought it would be a "great first bike" (I disagree) and he dumped it within a week.

Couldn't Harley make a great thumper as an entry level bike? Just take one cylinder from a 12 sporty or one of the big bikes and build a new crankshaft and case.

[jakgieger]

What a great pic.  I often have both of those expressions on my face while on my k75. 

Once I get outside the beltline highway I often think to myself in my best nasa voice: "Engage jetfighter mode..."


Yup :2thumbup: that's what drew me to them.  To me, I enjoy being the fastest thing on the road (most of the time) so that I can get away from BS.  In Kansas we have a lot of "space" :riding:.  When I get to old to enjoy this or afraid of the machine, then I will be an old guy.  At 44, I think I have quite a ways to go.  Nothing beats passing a Harley :neener:

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Love that picture.  Totally captures what motorcycles do for me. 

Kansas, what a wonderful place to own a bike.  Last spring I had the pleasure to have my 75RT doing 110mph for about 5 miles on a two lane in west Kansas.  I was the only sign of human life I could see in any direction at the time. 

[Glacial]

Here is an antidote to the stereotype:

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/gallery/2015/oct/27/cuba-ancient-harley-davidsons-in-pictures?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[Bokobob]

Well I neither own or want a Harley.  I disdain their high prices and also the "Everything you wanted in a bike in 1960" styling, especially those horrible looking parallelogram shaped hard cases....I will add that a Harley Rider righted a bike for me when I took a spill off the side of the road a couple of years ago. I admire fit and finish.

They are coming out with smaller street models to try to lure the beginners into their fold.   They are starting to use liquid cooled engines (albeit, as I understand it, just for the heads, and only on the more expensive models) and that is a plus...Their marketing dept is outstanding...I've said this before but they outdo both CocaCola and IBM in that department....The most frequently asked question I get when I tell folks I am a biker is, "Do you have a Harley?"  That question is asked nearly 100% of the time..

Aside from the horrible side cases, the Harley cruisers look much like cruisers of the Japanese makers, so why pay more? 

BMW has a much more varied line, despite not having traditional looking cruisers. 
(I almost bought a very nice R1200C lately but my pockets are not quite deep enough)

[Snowman]

I think the way HD has focused on its 'lifestyle' marketing is hurting them more. I have spoken to many non HD owners and some would contemplate buying a HD if it wasn't for the stupid stigma of what comes with one. The pirate ship is going down, slowly but it is going.

[Tuco]

I'm 56 myself and really picky about what I ride, as long as its somewhere between an Ariel and a Zundapp I probably like it. But in all seriousness I think the lifestyle thing is what is hurting them. When I sold my R80RT the gent who purchased it said he getting out of the lifestyle, disappointed because he thought he was joining a brotherhood and was instead greeted with drugs, fights etc. Also said he would not buy another one because of this. Recently had a conversation with a sport bike rider (he was 30ish) and his take on it was that ever since "Sons of Anarchy" had aired, a lot, not all, HD riders had gotten bit of an attitude. A friend of mine has a HD and he is the consummate rider, owns several marques including a BMW. Not the typical HD rider whatsoever. Its guys like him that HD needs to cater to because those are the guys who going to ride until they take their last breath. Not the guys who just want to look cool or be weekend tuff guys.