Author Topic: Fidding a 18" x 4.5" Rear Moto Wheel Widda Car Tior  (Read 34936 times)

Offline cat0020

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2014, 09:22:16 PM »
@ cat0020
Then Do It!
Start a project post, document your work and post your findings.
Yes, I do plan to do it, not just as a project but to find an alternative to expensive moto-specific tires.
The performance parameters I am looking to get out of a car tire is not the same as a moto-specific tire,

I have done some surfing and see that almost all the MC to Car tire/tyre conversions were done to mostly to heavy cruisers and the large touring bikes. There was a few videos of a Triumph Rocket 3 and a FJR 1300 that did the swap over but none using a BMW K bike (other that the ones who added a side car) Oh and a few Scooter videos.

Just look at the video I included in my previous post; there is a Suzuki VStrom using car tire on its rear wheel, those bikes are top heavy and yet pretty well known for carving in capable riders' hands.

Just remember to document, document, and oh yes, DOCUMENT your work. The Devil is really in the details.....

Good Luck and looking forward to your results.
I'm not doing this to pass DOT inspection, I'm doing this on my K75S that is over 20 year old and just for the bike to suit my purpose.

Maybe there's a reason the OEMs DO NOT put car tires on their motos....

Profit from selling moto-specific tires is one big reason,

Different sidewall construction and cornering ability comes to mind, not to mention HUGE liability issues from almost everywhere imaginable.
IMHO you are playing Russian Roulette with (at least) TWO rounds in the cylinder

Just because you can do it doesn't make it right.....

Liability is because people don't take responsibility for their own actions, always look for someone else to blame when bad things happen.
Most if not all casualty on motorcycle occur when using moto-specific tire, and you expect people to be patient enough to learn and master handling difference using car tire?

Having ridden 14k miles on a car tire mounted on the rear wheel, I know a few thing about how a car tire handles on a 2-wheel vehicle, and that Russian Roulette has not gone off on me yet. Naysayers can do all the talking, but without practical experience in this topic, they can only be words based on zero experience.

Offline Grim

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 07:23:20 PM »
You have already made up your mind and really did so before the post. Nothing anybody says invokes anything remotely productive.  This post has devolved and is borderline turning into a Troll post. 

Do it, Document it and Tell us how it turns out. Nobody here has done it before on but you. Look forward to some pictures.
1995 Morea Green K1100LT

Offline Rightsideup

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Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2014, 04:36:02 PM »
I cannot understand why anybody would want to do this. Are motorbike tyres really that unaffordable? What about corners? I'll stick with MC tyres designed to maintain a good contact patch at full lean.

Offline wmax351

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2014, 07:50:28 PM »
Yeah, I have to say, BT43's are 100 bucks a pop, and can last 10k miles. I think the only situation I would consider it is where I need more than 10k out of a tire, because I wouldn't want to carry a new one.
  • Ann Arbor, MI
  • 1991 BMW K75 Standard, Refreshed '94 engine
Bikes:
Current:
1991 BMW K75 Standard, Refreshed '94 engine


Past:
'83 BMW R65LS (An R65 with a prototype K Bike Front End)
'75 Honda CB550F
'69 Honda CB175
1999 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 (Last month of the original '55 model)
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V (5 speed, Right Shift, Disc Brake)
1971 BMW R75/5 in Toaster outfit
1979 Harley Davidson XLS-1000 Sportster Roadster

Offline Opus

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  • 1988 K100 LT
Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2014, 07:50:18 AM »
After checking out some of the videos and other sources I can understand why some riders choose to go with a car tire over a MC tire.
A lot depends on your riding style and locations where you ride the most I think.  Just running in the city or open highways with little or no twisties a car tire would work as good or better than a MC tire due to the fact you are riding in a more upright position almost all the time.
This style of riding uses mostly the center of the tire for traction. The contact patch on a car tire would be greater than a MC tire making it a better tire for commuting and long distance (Non-Sport) touring. Including longer tire life, wet surface handling, improved riding comfort, and lower replacement costs makes a car tire look very good. As stated before in a earlier post, car tires would most likely work well on Heavy Cruisers, Choppers, and Larger Touring bikes.

Although there are videos of car tires used on Sport & Sport Touring bikes I would not use one unless my riding style was the same as I stated above.

That being said, I would not use a car tire on my K100LT.
I'm not saying it would not work, it's just that it does not work for my riding style.



Toney

1988 BMW K100LT (Current Project Bike)
1982 Honda GW 1100 I (Sold and will be missed)
1975 Honda CB550F [MOD] (Sold)
196x Sears Allstate 250 (Traded in for CB550F)

Offline cat0020

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2014, 09:54:28 AM »
I cannot understand why anybody would want to do this. Are motorbike tyres really that unaffordable? What about corners? I'll stick with MC tyres designed to maintain a good contact patch at full lean.

If you cannot understand something, it doesn't meant those who do it are to be criticized by you or anyone who has no experience in the matter.


Yeah, I have to say, BT43's are 100 bucks a pop, and can last 10k miles. I think the only situation I would consider it is where I need more than 10k out of a tire, because I wouldn't want to carry a new one.
Done properly, a single $65-$90 car tire can easily last 20 to 30k miles on a 2-wheel vehicle; in comparison $90-$140 or more moto-specific tire that last 10k mi. or less.

Car tires are designed to support vehicle weight 3-4 times of a motorcycle, to handle stress/forces from a vehicle 3-4 time the weight of a motorcycle. Yes, handling will be different, but that goes for any new tire mounted on a bike; it takes practice to master the handling of any new tire.

We each choose how we ride and what risk we are willing to take. Just because you are not willing to take the risk, or can't think of why anyone would want to take the risk; doesn't mean those who do deserve criticism for something you don't understand.


Offline Rightsideup

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2014, 08:18:54 AM »
If you cannot understand something, it doesn't meant those who do it are to be criticized by you or anyone who has no experience in the matter.

We each choose how we ride and what risk we are willing to take. Just because you are not willing to take the risk, or can't think of why anyone would want to take the risk; doesn't mean those who do deserve criticism for something you don't understand.

Hmmm, a curious reply? I'm pretty sure that I didn't criticise you, or anybody else in my post - I simply said that I couldn't understand why anyone would want to do this and you've not explained it in your reply? Seems to me, by your calculations that you'll save about $150 in 25k miles. I also doubt an insurer would pay out once they discovered you were running a car tyre on a bike - could be wrong though but it might be an idea to check with them.

Offline tg4360

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2014, 11:56:53 AM »
Did I miss the REASON for a car tior? 

On a sidecar rig it makes sense as long as you are not planing on flying the chair regularly.  I have a friend who has some flavor of a Honda sidecar rig (longitudinal V4 or 6?) that has car t i r e s front rear and on chair and it seems to be the right answer.

The handling problems and t i r e construction would concern me.

Going into ANY turn above walking speed you need to lean the bike.  When the bike leans over with a squared off cross section t i r e  (Even a well worn t i r e  will do the following...) the bike will be levered UP from it's normal position as you lean over.  This not only raises your CG as that happens but it also steepens the steering rake as the back end comes up (Unless the front t i r e had the exact same profile which is unlikely).

That alone would make the rear feel a little squirrelly (at least to me... the last Dunlop (I forget the type) I had on the rear of my LT, I could FEEL it lifting up on the edge that had developed due to a series of long slab trips.

Add to that the fact that the t i r e manufacturer never intended that tior to run on the corner of the tread pattern ever makes me consider this a no go in a motorcycle situation.

TG
Tony G

'87 K100GS (Mutated from a K100LT)
'79 XS750 "The Triple"
'72 A65T "The T-Bolt"
'68 B25 "The Blue Bike"

Offline mack75

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2014, 07:31:18 PM »
My mate had a Honda Shadow 750 bobber, matt black, red wheels, ape hangers. He wanted the wide wheel look and spent hours in the machine shop. He fitted a Cossack rear wheel and car tyre in the front forks and a wide car tyre on the Honda rear rim. "  that looks the dogs boll**ks what's it ride like?" I asked. He took a long, deep draw on his cigarette and for a moment savoured the smoke in his lungs, inspecting the tip of his cigarette he exhaled and with one eye closed answered "It's sh*t".  :falldown:

A motorcycle tyre costs 100  its designed for quick heat build up to increase grip and to withstand rapid acceleration. On most the centre compound is harder for highway use and softer on the side walls for high speed turns. Unless you buy a sports compound tyre for massive grip but poor longevity ( speed is expensive). The internal design and construction differs from your average run of the mill car tyre, the profile is designed to offer greater lean grip through fast corners or emergency get me out of the way of that car, truck, Moose.

The average car tyre costs 50, its design mostly to work with three others taking mom and the kids to school. When Mrs Beckham is taking the kids to school in her 190 mph Lambo you can bet Dave is sticking some serious rubber on it and not messing with the rapid fit discount blokes.
Yeah a car tyre will do 100 mph down the motorway if you have a blow out you still have three to play with and its down the pub that night telling big Steve all about your crap day. On a bike you lose one and its good night Vienna. Do me a favour mate save your dosh and buy a hard compound bike tyre for highway use, save the fat arse look for the Hardly Riders MC.
Don't wait now is the time, enjoy.

Offline Chaos

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2014, 08:36:34 PM »
90% or motorcycle riders don't push their tires to 50% or their capabilities.  95% of the chrome and noise crowd it's all about image.  85% don't put 3000 miles a year on their bike. Chances are if you go darkside and crash you would have crashed with bike tires.  Show me a raked out hardtail with apehangers, straight pipes,  chrome skulls and a car tire and I'll lay odds the car tire is the least dangerous mod.  And I made up 80% of these stats.
  • sw ohio
1987 K75S    VIN 0231
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200,000 miles (plus or minus) and 5 paint jobs
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Offline CRASH

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2014, 10:57:01 PM »
I love when the darksiders toss out the YouTube videos and the "no one would consider earth is round" bullshit argument ... just because you CAN do something does not mean you SHOULD. 
- CRASH -

Offline cat0020

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2014, 06:42:20 PM »
I've already put over 14k miles with a $65 car tire mounted.

No accidents, tread not even 1/2 way worn.

Corners fine at any reasonable speed, even ridden aggressively, 2-up.

Super smooth highway cruise; I take chances just like any other rider.


Offline johnny

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2014, 10:29:24 PM »
greetings cat0020...

sounds yeeehaaaaa... keep us informed as to your mileage...

j o
  • :johnny i parks my 96 eleven hundert rs motobrick in dodge county cheezconsin  :johnny

Offline mystic red

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 01:48:48 PM »
Looks like he'll get about 30K out of a rear....what do you get out of a rear?

Offline K75RT Keith

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 02:53:38 PM »
According to his initial post,  He's got the mileage on a Burgman Scoot not a motorcycle.  IMHO different animal
You can't help someone who doesn't want to hear the answer.

1990 K75RT

Offline Rightsideup

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2014, 03:21:59 PM »

According to his initial post,  He's got the mileage on a Burgman Scoot not a motorcycle.  IMHO different animal

+1

Offline mr_10brook

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2014, 08:53:32 PM »
Another thing he has not told us is what kind of tire is is going to put on the K75.

Probably because there is not a car tire made that will fit the rim.
97 K1100LT
94 K1100LT Pine Green (rear ended and totaled)
93 K75S Pearl White
93 K75S Mystic Red
91 K1 Black
79 R100RS (not running)
71 R60/5
66 R90/2 (runs just have not registered for several years)
08 Wee Strom
Other various brands (I have MBD, Multiple Bike Disorder)

Offline mystic red

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2014, 11:54:24 PM »
I still want to know what Johnny gets out of his rear..... cool shades

Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2014, 07:11:10 AM »
Another thing he has not told us is what kind of tire is is going to put on the K75.

Probably because there is not a car tire made that will fit the rim.

Yeah --I've been waiting for that info too. I looked into a k75 car tire for my hack back in 2007 and couldn't find one. When you can get a Shinko for $65 shipped it's not worth the hassle of doing the smart car wheel mod for the hack and that mod has been documented on ADV Rider theres no point replicating it here. If I get 6000mi on a Shinko rear then I can go 24k mi for $270 which with time, labor and parts is much less than I'd spend on the smart car mod so that discussion really doesn't belong in the wrenching section because nobody here is wrenching on it.

No car tire available, ergo no real point in this thread...except for the pointless hypothetical 'dark side' debate which really doesn't belong in the wrenching section because its not possible to wrench on it without a tire that fits.

So -- identify the tire in a new thread and let this thread die since its dead in the water anyway.

My $0.02...
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 130k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 184k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline racinrich

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2014, 08:36:57 AM »
I put my old metzlers on my mini cooper and now I can really lean into the turns.  I wish I'd thought of it sooner!!! Isn't that what Harley riders do to make their bikes handle even worse ? car tires for everyone! NOT
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Offline K75RT Keith

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Re: Going "Darkside"..
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2014, 10:09:46 AM »
+10 to Motohobo. 

Mr. Moderator, Would you please consider moving this to a more appropriate areas like The Back Porch
You can't help someone who doesn't want to hear the answer.

1990 K75RT

Offline cat0020

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Fidding a 18" x 4.5" Rear Moto Wheel Widda Car Tior
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2014, 10:24:42 PM »
If you can fit a car tire onto that wheel, probably won't need replacement for 30-40k miles.. just handles a little different.

Offline cat0020

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Re: Fitting a 18 x 4.5" rear wheel 2
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2014, 05:09:06 AM »
It does not affect handling...just bugs some people. I would say 1/4 to 1/2 inch Just try it..you won't be sorry.

 Not sure why my original post to this reply was moved from thread, but I'd imagine because I mentioned usage of car tire. If that "bugs" people, that's the purpose of these public forum discussions; to have intelligent dislogues.

Honestly, the difference between moto-specific tire vs car tire mounted on the rear wheel of a motorcycle is the affected handling, but the benefit of much longer tire tread life, smoother, better traction at majority of operation and lower overall cost.

I endorse the usage of car tire because I have used it without problems; if that "bugs" some people, that's no reason for my practical experience to be removed from the rest. To move my posts or thread on the topic because the content is not a widely supported doesn't make my experience less valid; only make those who shun on the idea of trying something different display their lack of vision in motorcycling adventure. There are always risks involved in most if not everything we do, lack of data does not indicate more risk.



Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Fitting a 18 x 4.5" rear wheel 3
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2014, 06:05:12 AM »
Dude, your thread was removed because you talk about something without providing any helpful information. If you actually know where to get a car tire that fits the rim, know the model number, manufacturer and distributor, then that info would be welcome here. But if you're going to just do your usual car tire rant even though you haven't actually researched whether a car tire is actually available in this real universe instead of your alternate universe where car tires for K bikes grow from the ground like weeds, then do everyone and yourself a favor and leave it out.

I appreciate the ADV Rider link to the Smartcar wheel mod. But aside from that, your posts are about as helpful as when someone asks for details about a technical issue and you respond repeatedly with "Hey -- you need to fix that!" That's troll-talk, not moto info.

So either become knowledgable about the topic you're so passionate about, give us info we can use and stop wasting everyone's time with hypotheticals or STFU.

My NSHO.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 130k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 184k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 76,000 mi (11k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B'

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline cat0020

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Re: Fitting a 18 x 4.5" rear wheel 4
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2014, 07:09:33 AM »
Isn't one of the function of these forums to consolidate information and come up with possible solutions together?
Why is solely my responsibility to come up with helpful information?
I provided examples of car tire usage on motos, I provided my own experience in using car tire on moto, I posed questions and hoped for someone to help from the collective of this forum , but instead received replies that are non-contributing and eventually get my thread and posts moved to ignored area of forum.
Does that seem accurate of what actually happened?

BTW, my experience and knowledge with car tire usage on 2-wheel vehicle is not hypothetical, I share my experience so that this community can expand our views beyond the boundary of what OEM designate, utilize materials as something finite and should be maximized for efficiency and value. Not all of us ride to the tire's capability to the max, heck probably not even 50% of the tire's capability through its lifetime; so why not explore other possibilities, together?

Telling another forum member to "STFU", is that endorsed by the forum moderator?
And what have you contributed to this particular thread anyway?


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