Kopr Kote On Drivetrain

[Past-my-Prime]

Haha this has been a meandering thread!

Kopr Kote to failed drive splines (not quite failed, but nearly so) to well let's see what long ignored valves look like.

The next moan of bitterness will be when I have to take the back half of the drive train off to replace the clutch. "Easy" say the old hands at wrenching!

On the bright side, I've changed the engine oil regularly!

[Laitch]

On the bright side, I've changed the engine oil regularly!

If your oil didn't come from a tin can, be careful.

You won't be able to see your valves; they're on the other side of the head. You can visualize them though, and send them positive vibrations. Send up your shim calculations here for review, but you might not need any if you accept the idea that a clearance measuring in spec is a clearance that is in spec.

[Past-my-Prime]

Oh man, this is going to be pricey:

Need to send in for refurbishing the complete rear end the cost is $759.20 to $1,374.93 (depending on how bad the bearings and gears are)

Drive Shaft: $336.76.
.
.
PLUS Postage!!

It looks, from reading various threads on this forum, that disassembly of the FD isn't THAT bad. (take it off, bake it at 350 until done, remove various pieces, take lots of photographs, etc).

Then you just send in the pinion which they can redo for $240 (plus driveshaft of course for a bit more: $374.18)

That can reduce labor costs at Hansen's by a fair amount but increases my labor possibly by more. And postage / insurance is less.

I have a lot of researching to do before I get to that point.

While it's gone would be the optimal time to replace my clutch.

I wonder how my wife would like me parking the Beemer in the living room for a few weeks? That's one way to get her to agree that we need a heated garage / workshop!

[natalena]

Save your money, as this is a great winter project to bond with your brick...well, except the final drive rebuild. Everything else can be done with a shop manual and the expertise from here and some careful YouTube searches.
FWIW, rigged up a double Buddy heater to a 20lb tank for the garage, works splendid.
Good luck

[johnny]

greetings...

if i was in this kinda shape id call lior and ask him if he would rebuild my final drive complete...  if so id ask him how much and how long...

then id hire him to do the work and be done with that part of the whack...

https://liorsmotoride.godaddysites.com/

j o

[Past-my-Prime]

The bolts that hold the swingarm to the final drive should be Kopr Kote protected, according to Chris Harris. (and tightened to the correct torque which I believe is 30 ft/lbs, according to my "cheat sheet")

Thought I'd let y'all know that.

And I've gotten replacement FD and drive shaft if anyone is interested!

[frankenduck]

The BMW shop manual makes no mention of using anything on those 4 swing arm to final drive bolts, anti-seize or thread-locker.  If you pull those bolts and there's something on them then it didn't come from the factory. There's no need to put anything on those threads.

[Laitch]

The BMW shop manual makes no mention of using anything on those 4 swing arm to final drive bolts, anti-seize or thread-locker.

The BMW shop manual rarely mentions using anti-seize on any bolt or screw. Chris Harris recommends using it on many bolts and screws he encounters in his video. It isn't going to hurt anything if it's applied sparingly but torque should be reduced by 10%–15% when  applied to fasteners with lubricated threads.

I've read posts where those rear drive bolts have been seized so tightly their attempted removal produced hysteria and high blood pressure effects in people dealing with them. A thin application on the bolt head face contacting the part when it was installed might have remedied the removal difficulty, especially if the motos were ridden on salt-covered roads or in areas near bodies of salt water. Applying heat, Liquid Wrench, patience and persistence would also have done the trick.

[Past-my-Prime]

Does the shop manual mention moly paste for the splines? I looked (at the original BMW manual, in German, about 600 pages, which came with my bike) and couldn't find it.

[Laitch]

Does the shop manual mention moly paste for the splines?

Within the BMW Repair Manual K75-K100LT All 2V Models here at Motobrick in the Technical Directory's Service Manual section, there are a few references to Optimoly (also known as Optimol) PL, a lubricating paste containing molybdenum. One such reference is in Chapter 33, p. 24.0. Optimoly PL is named as an alternative to Staburags NBU 30 PTM. Does that square with your manual, PmP?

[Past-my-Prime]

I have that page, and it refers to installation of the gaiter only. The rest of the chapter refers to removal and re-installation of the final drive, and how to disassemble the entire thing, tolerances, etc (and more work than I can see myself doing).
Nothing about the spline surfaces. I guess the book was written before spline failures became a thing?

[frankenduck]

Does the shop manual mention moly paste for the splines? I looked (at the original BMW manual, in German, about 600 pages, which came with my bike) and couldn't find it.

Yes, look two posts above. The BMW manual says to coat the FD input splines with Staburags or Optimoly.

Spline lubes are also included in the K bike maintenance schedule.

[Laitch]

I have that page, and it refers to installation of the gaiter only.

My post also indicates that instruction is just one among others—including driveline splines as frankenduck indicates. Slow your speed-reading, PmP.  Spline maintenance has always been a thing.

[frankenduck]

The BMW shop manual rarely mentions using anti-seize on any bolt or screw. Chris Harris recommends using it on many bolts and screws he encounters in his video. It isn't going to hurt anything if it's applied sparingly but torque should be reduced by 10%–15% when  applied to fasteners with lubricated threads.

I've read posts where those rear drive bolts have been seized so tightly their attempted removal produced hysteria and high blood pressure effects in people dealing with them. A thin application on the bolt head face contacting the part when it was installed might have remedied the removal difficulty, especially if the motos were ridden on salt-covered roads or in areas near bodies of salt water. Applying heat, Liquid Wrench, patience and persistence would also have done the trick.

I've taken tons of Ks apart (including some real beaters) and never had an issue with removing those bolts.  The only places I've seen the need for anti-seize are the peg plate bolts (especially on K1100s) and the three mounting bolts for the alternator.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

With all due respect, up here in the rust belt(emphasis on RUST) copper anti-seize is cheap insurance for making sure you don't have to spend a whole day removing a fastener that has a stripped out head or is broken off.  It's just good practice to put a light smear on the threads when you put a fastener in.  It makes taking things apart a lot more pleasant, especially stuff down low on the bike where wheel spray goes.

The fact that PmP has white powder aluminum corrosion on his screws is witness to the nasty stuff that can be splashed on your bike riding in places where the snow flies.  Even when there is no snow on the roads, the residual salt powder will get into stuff and wait for the eventual application of water to start doing it's thing.

Another thing, I noticed that Laitch posted a drawing of a Paralever.  According to PmP's signature, he has a K75 which would be a Monolever and thus has no gaiter and a different assembly procedure.

[frankenduck]

Another thing, I noticed that Laitch posted a drawing of a Paralever.  According to PmP's signature, he has a K75 which would be a Monolever and thus has no gaiter and a different assembly procedure.

Both 2V and 4V Ks have the exact same gaiter (part 33171454552) where the front of the swing arm meets the transmission.

[Past-my-Prime]

Both 2V and 4V Ks have the exact same gaiter (part 33171454552) where the front of the swing arm meets the transmission.

. . . which I can confirm as everything is in about a million pieces all over the place. Which gets me to the fact that I have a 22 mm and a 30 mm socket (and all the sizes below 22) but NO 27 mm socket! Which makes torquing the counter-bolt on the swing arm interesting.

My actual work has me sitting at a desk, proofing reports, talking on the phone, meeting with people, and doing very little that requires any manual dexterity so I appreciate these opportunities to disassemble and reassemble things.

My post also indicates that instruction is just one among others—including driveline splines as frankenduck indicates. Slow your speed-reading, PmP.  Spline maintenance has always been a thing.

You are absolutely correct. I didn't bother (ever) to read that paragraph which I (wrongly) assumed just said to install the FD and torque specs.  I have to concede that there is a lot of information about these bikes that unless you're looking for it, you don't find it. Henceforth, spline maintenance IS a thing for me as well.

On a more positive note, I have checked the valve clearances and although they were all out of spec, it wasn't by much and I moved the exhaust shims to the intake (which are now in spec) and ordered three more shims at 4.45 mm to replace the 4.50 mm ones that I moved up. Very satisfying job to do.

And on a more negative note, I'm seeing dripping from my recently installed water pump bearing/gasket. So drain everything again, remove pump, remove shaft, remove failed (wrecked, by me) components, reassemble taking great care to follow instructions, and see if I have more success.

My wife keeps coming to the garage to make sure I'm OK -- I think it's been about six days of working on the bike doing the above and I'm very glad I'm not paying my hourly rate or this bike would have cost me more than I'd pay to replace it     

[frankenduck]

Which gets me to the fact that I have a 22 mm and a 30 mm socket (and all the sizes below 22) but NO 27 mm socket! Which makes torquing the counter-bolt on the swing arm interesting.

Torqueing the lock nut on the left swing arm pivot pin is not that critical. It's just a lock nut. The torque that MATTERS is on the left pivot pin because that determines how much lateral force is applied to the the swing arm bearings.  After that left pivot pin is properly torqued (7.5 Nm - 66.4 in-lb) you can just hold it in place with a 6mm Allen wrench while you tighten the lock nut "pretty darn tight" with a large crescent wrench. That's what I do.

One of the many K bikes I've bought came with this modified socket for that task. (It's actually 1-1/16 but that's 26.9875 mm so it works fine on a 27mm nut.)  I don't use it though since the exact torque on that lock nut doesn't really matter. That lock nut just needs to be tight enough to keep the pivot pin from turning.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Duck, I need to have some coffee in the morning before I go off posting.  I don't kow why I thought that was the drawing of the joint in the Paralever.  Is there a "dumbfuck" emoji I can use here?