Turn signal whack revisited

[beemuker]

Finally got around to cleaning the starter [ the commutator was pretty dirty] as I replaced the battery and was already half- way there. It didn't help. Turn signals still whacky, sometimes all blink, sometimes wrong side blink, sometimes nothing. Horn works normally, hazards work normally. ?????

[E30_Crazy]

Probably skipping the accepted procedural testing here, but I had an issue similar to yours. It ended up being the clocks full of water, and fried circuitry therein.

[Laitch]

Turn signals still whacky, sometimes all blink, sometimes wrong side blink, sometimes nothing.

The casting of runes indicates the pulling of the flasher relay then the careful cleaning its pins and sockets might be enlightening.

[beemuker]

The casting of runes indicates the pulling of the flasher relay then the careful cleaning its pins and sockets might be enlightening.

ok, did that, and rechecked the fuses. still whacky. could you recast the runes for me? lent mine to the neighbor who never returns things.

[daveson]

So you have power to the indicators, power to the hazards, earth to the hazards,  but an earth failure to the indicators. Too the indicators, not from them. Possibly the indicator switch, as that is a high wear spot.

There are many possibilities.

Do you mean pressing the left indicator turns on the right,  but the right doesn't work the left? That would point to an earth fail on the left,  and like a thief it steals earth from the hazards.

Or the other way around.

Or something else.

[rbm]

Check power on the relay Pin 15 (Green/Black)
Check power on the relay Pin 58E (Grey/White)
If power is present and in spec on these wires, then another thing to try is to open the flasher module and reheat the solder joints where the pins join the PCB.  Sometimes the solder joints go cold and don't make a good connection.

[beemuker]

So you have power to the indicators, power to the hazards, earth to the hazards,  but an earth failure to the indicators. Too the indicators, not from them. Possibly the indicator switch, as that is a high wear spot.

There are many possibilities.

Do you mean pressing the left indicator turns on the right,  but the right doesn't work the left? That would point to an earth fail on the left,  and like a thief it steals earth from the hazards.

Or the other way around.

Or something else.

pressing R turn button= all turn signals light as long as button is depressed
pressing L turn button= same
hazard switch= all flash and continue, but when turned off L flashes and stays on
cancel switch= all flash, whether on or not

[Laitch]

pressing R turn button= all turn signals light as long as button is depressed
pressing L turn button= same
hazard switch= all flash and continue, but when turned off L flashes and stays on
cancel switch= all flash, whether on or not

Because the left and right turn signals are on separate switches, if it were my problem I'd rap on that relay a few times with a screwdriver handle to see if that had an effect—any effect at all. If it did, I'd plan on getting a new relay. If it didn't, I'd try testing it.

[beemuker]

Because the left and right turn signals are on separate switches, if it were my problem I'd rap on that relay a few times with a screwdriver handle to see if that had an effect—any effect at all. If it did, I'd plan on getting a new relay. If it didn't, I'd try testing it.

thanks laitch
New relay = big bucks?
testing may be beyond my electrical expertise, though I do have a digital meter or 2, but rapping on it looks doable.I'll try it.
maybe i can find a used "good one" and swap them out to see if that's the problem.
looked on fleabay:
there is a used one for a k1100/k100 that has the same part number for $72.30 or best offer
another from a k75 for $94.95
and a new one for over $200
hate to spend the $ if the flasher's  not even the problem. how do I test it?

 anyone got one they want to loan me, or sell?

[Laitch]

anyone got one they want to loan me, or sell?

Don't throw parts at a moto until you're certain you need them. Step 1: Rapity, rap, rap.

[Laitch]

Have you followed rbm's advice? Get on it.

[beemuker]

Don't throw parts at a moto until you're certain you need them. Step 1: Rapity, rap, rap.

I rapped. no change.

[beemuker]

Check power on the relay Pin 15 (Green/Black)
Check power on the relay Pin 58E (Grey/White)
If power is present and in spec on these wires, then another thing to try is to open the flasher module and reheat the solder joints where the pins join the PCB.

so do I pull the relay and see if I get voltage at those pins?

[daveson]

In the mean time,  a couple of quick questions.

How do the indicators work if you:

1 Unplug the hazard switch.

2 Unplug or press the horn.

3 Unplug or press the indicator cancel switch.

I know this is wishful thinking but if, for example, the indicators work normally with the hazards unplugged, at least you can ride until the problem is sorted.

[beemuker]

In the mean time,  a couple of quick questions.

How do the indicators work if you:

1 Unplug the hazard switch.

2 Unplug or press the horn.

3 Unplug or press the indicator cancel switch.

I know this is wishful thinking but if, for example, the indicators work normally with the hazards unplugged, at least you can ride until the problem is sorted.

pressing the horn has no effect.
pressing the cancel sw lights all while depressed
I don't know what you mean by unpluging the switches.

[daveson]

Under the tank,  on the left hand side,  is the hazard plug,  with three wires,  brown,  white/blue and yellow/ violet. On the right, inside the big plug,  is the turn signal cancel switch plug,  brown/white. The horn switch is not separate,  the lazy way would be remove the horn relay,  probably to no effect.

The retaining tabs are old and brittle,  so go easy.

If pressing the horn at the same time as the indicators,  watchya got? The turn signal cancel at the same time as the indicators, watchya got?  Long shots but quick.

And there are some other suggestions you havn't reported back on yet.

[beemuker]

Under the tank,  on the left hand side,  is the hazard plug,  with three wires,  brown,  white/blue and yellow/ purple. On the right, inside the big plug,  is the turn signal cancel switch plug,  brown/white. The horn switch is not separate,  the lazy way would be remove the horn relay,  probably to no effect.

The retaining tabs are old and brittle,  so go easy.

If pressing the horn at the same time as the indicators,  watchya got? The turn signal cancel at the same time as the indicators, watchya got?  Long shots but quick.

And there are some other suggestions you havn't reported back on yet.

when I depress the signal cancel, all signals light and flash for as long as depressed, pressing the horn switch seems to have no effect.
When I press either r or l turn signal, all flash as long as depressed. Same as cancel switch. Pressing both cancel and turn signal, same, all flash.
When I get a chance I,ll pull the tank and check the plug connections
Thanks

[rbm]

Check the ground connection in the multi-connector in the tail of the bike.  It's possible that your signal whack is related to a bad ground.

After doing that, and if you haven't already done so, then disassemble/clean/reassemble the following :
* clean all the grounds. 
* clean the starter.   
* clean the handlebar switches with contact cleaner.
* clean the flasher module connections.

[beemuker]

Check the ground connection in the multi-connector in the tail of the bike.  It's possible that your signal whack is related to a bad ground.

After doing that, and if you haven't already done so, then disassemble/clean/reassemble the following :
* clean all the grounds. 
* clean the starter.   
* clean the handlebar switches with contact cleaner.
* clean the flasher module connections.

thanks, the starter and flasher module done.
I was going to get to the switches next

[beemuker]

Check the ground connection in the multi-connector in the tail of the bike.  It's possible that your signal whack is related to a bad ground.

After doing that, and if you haven't already done so, then disassemble/clean/reassemble the following :
* clean all the grounds. 
* clean the starter.   
* clean the handlebar switches with contact cleaner.
* clean the flasher module connections.

ground connection good at tail multi - connector and at lights.
foam at top of abs module a sticky mess.
as I was testing, noticed if I activate hazard switch, when I turn it off, left flashers flash , and pressing right or left turn  or cancel switch it turns off?
I'll get to the switches next.

[johnny]

greetings...

there are only 2 people who know what is causing that whack....

me and inge k...

j o

[beemuker]

greetings...

there are only 2 people who know what is causing that whack....

me and inge k...

j o

ok, I guess Inge is out, what's it going to take to get you to spill the beans? I already fueled up.

[Martin]

As per RBM a bad earth connection.
Regards Martin.

[Laitch]

Has rbm's suggestion in Reply #5 of heating likely cold solder joints within the flasher unit been undertaken yet? If not, why not? I don't see that checked off in the list.

[daveson]

OK,  I have reproduced the symptoms by having both faults,  disconnecting earth at the rear,  and disabling the outer relay contacts.  I did this by placing thin cardboard to both sides of the contact arm.

Sadly it's not looking good for the flasher unit. I'm thinking the later flasher units are not as easy to dismantle. The contact arm might be broken. If you hold the flasher unit horizontally, with the eight pins row above the seven, give it a shake,  you might hear a faint noise,  possibly a broken arm sliding around.

Anyway,  see what you got after cleaning the parts suggested by RBM.