Author Topic: Possible Water Pollution?  (Read 1215 times)

Offline Ironwrx

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Possible Water Pollution?
« on: April 08, 2019, 07:28:57 PM »
     Hi. The long Vermont winter has finally loosened its grip and the multiple glaciers have finally given way to mud!  This got me thinking of coming back out of hibernation to get on my bike again for an early spring ride.  The temperature got up to 55 (my minimum is 50) and I decided to start up the bike and see how it ran. Well, it started after an extended start time, (with considerable starter use), and it seemed to need a longer choke use than normal. after a short time, I ramped down to 1/2 choke. still running a bit rough, I tried the throttle.  It popped (backfired), and has not started of its own free will since.  I did try starting fluid several times, but couldn't get more than a few coughs out of it.
     During the long cold lonely winter, I may have made a fatal mistake: my wife was low on gas in her car, and at the time we didn't have any cash, so I siphoned the gas from the bike. Normally I don't like to do this, on account of condensation fear.  I did refill the tank, and ended up putting "mechanic in a bottle" fuel treatment in. Unfortunately to no avail. Any ideas out there? or am I going to have to tear out the carbs, swab out the tank, etc.? help!!
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline Chaos

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 07:54:38 PM »
you may have some water in the tank, add a can of HEET to a fresh tank and swapping out the plugs for some new ones will probably fix you up.  Don't worry about the carbs, K bikes are strictly on the Kito diet.
  • sw ohio
1987 K75S    VIN 0231
Original owner, Original litter
200,000 miles (plus or minus) and 5 paint jobs
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 08:16:27 PM »
+1 on the condensation. 

Get the battery on a charger.  If you haven't done it lately, get a NAPA 3032 fuel filter and install it.

Get a couple cans of drygas, the isopropryl alcohol stuff, a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner, and a couple gallons of no corn gasoline if you can find it.  Pull as much old gas out of the tank as possible, and use paper towels to soak up the stuff remaining at the low points.  Add the fresh fuel and 1 can of drygas with the Techron.   

Try to start the engine.  If it starts, great, if not, that's okay too.  Crank it a bit to circulate the mixture in the tank and blend it with the stuff that you couldn't remove.  If it still won't start, crank for a minute or so, and let it sit overnight on the charger while the fresh fuel cleans things up in the injectors.   Next day it should start.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue, '89 K100RS Special edition White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too
'89 K100RS SE

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2019, 10:53:42 PM »
Thanks guys. (Sigh) Iím glad there is apparently hope for my blue babe. Iíll update when I get a chance to try the suggestions.
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline blackie1

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 02:32:01 AM »
methylated spirits mixed into your water contaminated fuel at a ratio of 15ml per liter.

Meths is Hygroscopic. it attracts and absorbs water and will allow it to be combusted through the engine.

had great success with this a few years back.

cheap option and normally have a half bottle of meths laying about in the shed...... or the drinks cabinet
  • new zealand , where else would u want to live, really
  • 1991 K75RT naked 40,000kms

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 08:50:12 PM »
methylated spirits mixed into your water contaminated fuel at a ratio of 15ml per liter.

Meths is Hygroscopic. it attracts and absorbs water and will allow it to be combusted through the engine.

had great success with this a few years back.

cheap option and normally have a half bottle of meths laying about in the shed...... or the drinks cabinet
Ok. Itís kind of a moot point (and you will see why momentarily. But what is mentholated spirits?
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline Laitch

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 09:02:04 PM »
But what is mentholated spirits?
It's a UK term for denatured alcohol. Methylated.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 72,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 09:24:13 PM »
Hi. Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I was planning on new plugs, and a new filter, as suggested ÖBUTÖ when I took the gas cap assembly off to clean up the tank this is what I found!! Ahhhh Haaaaa!!!! So, Olí Blue didnít have a major problem after all. Just a minor fuel hose disconnection!!  I swabbed out the tank, put in some Techron, re-attached the fuel
Hose, and Voila!! Itís Alive!! And runs great!! Iím not sure how the fuel hose got disconnected, but glad it was an easy fix!!
I am left, however , with a couple of questions: how did the hose get disconnected in the first place? In picture #1I show a broken fuel pump hold-down tab that I discovered in the bottom of the tank. Should I be worried that the pump is now only Ēsnapped inĒ with one tab? In picture #2, and #3I found what I thought was an old dead leaf, but was actually some type of ďfillerĒ or sealant that had been used somewhere and ended up in the bottom of the tank. This ďfillerĒ was just loose in the bottom of the tank, and seems to have no purpose there. Anyone seen any of this before?
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 09:32:38 PM »
It's a UK term for denatured alcohol. Methylated.
Gotcha! So, Iím your opinion, is that better than to use isopropyl?
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline Laitch

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 09:42:07 PM »
. . . when I took the gas cap assembly off to clean up the tank this is what I found!! Ahhhh Haaaaa!!!!
Gotcha! So, Iím your opinion, is that better than to use isopropyl?
The fuel line connected to the fuel filter doesn't appear to be in good condition. Consider replacing both lines connected to the filter with high pressure, submersible fuel hose. The fuel pump holder will probably be stable enough with one locking tab if the moto isn't habitually ridden over pothole fields. The tab's being broken indicates that the plastic might be brittle so take care when removing the assembly from the tank.

There appears to be the imprint of welding bead in that material you identify as filler. No telling whether that material was inserted within the tank to stop a seam leak or dropped accidentally, or for some other purpose. It doesn't look like anything I've come across in my moto's tank.

You don't need to use either IsoHeet or yellow Heet in your tank. Put some clean fuel in it after you replace the fuel hoses.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 72,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2019, 11:24:33 PM »
There appears to be the imprint of welding bead in that material you identify as filler. No telling whether that material was inserted within the tank to stop a seam leak or dropped accidentally, or for some other purpose. It doesn't look like anything I've come across in my moto's tank.
I agree with your impression of the look of this ďfillerĒ. I guess since there doesnít seem to.be any leaks, it doesnít seem to belong there. Iíll just be glad itís no longer rattling around in there.
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Online Martin

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 02:29:30 AM »
If you are concerned about the missing pump locking tab, try wedging a short piece of submersible fuel hose trimmed to fit into the missing tab slot. You can do this while you are replacing your other tank hoses.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline daveson

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 03:41:56 AM »
Back in the days (before ethanol blend was available) on the rare occasion I had freezing or condensation problems, I would pour half a litre of metho (~alcohol)  in the tank, and it would be problem solved. Nowadays you don't have to, just put ethanol (~alcohol) blend in your tank. It's an even rarer problem now that carbies are so rare. I spose it might still be a problem in colder countries.
  • Victoria, Australia
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Offline Laitch

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 07:59:25 AM »
If you are concerned about the missing pump locking tab, try wedging a short piece of submersible fuel hose trimmed to fit into the missing tab slot. You can do this while you are replacing your other tank hoses.
+1
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 72,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 11:07:30 PM »
The fuel line connected to the fuel filter doesn't appear to be in good condition. Consider replacing both lines connected to the filter with high pressure, submersible fuel hose.

Well, Laitch, I think youíre right!! I clamped the fuel line thatís connected from the filter back onto the pump, and  a day later, while showing my son how nice the bike started and ran, it happened again - pop tap the line came off the pump again and hit the inside of the tank. Iíll Be ordering some new hose from Max. Could this possibly be caused by a partially blocked fuel filter too? The Mighty Gryphon Suggested a Napa 3032 fuel filter. Is this OEM spec? Or would another one be better?
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline blackie1

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2019, 12:04:25 AM »
trust in the Gryphon my friend
  • new zealand , where else would u want to live, really
  • 1991 K75RT naked 40,000kms

Offline daveson

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2019, 07:08:44 AM »
If you still have that piece, see if you can find where it fits. Maybe on the right hand side at the low point. If you find a spot where it fits, it might give a clue as to its purpose.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current;'86 K100RT Past; '97 Yamaha V Star 650 Yamaha V Star

Offline Laitch

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2019, 07:46:59 AM »
. . .  while showing my son how nice the bike started and ran, it happened again - pop tap the line came off the pump again and hit the inside of the tank. . . .

The Mighty Gryphon Suggested a Napa 3032 fuel filter. Is this OEM spec? Or would another one be better?
The hoses look degraded. A clogged filter can cause back pressure that could possibly push it away from the pipe connection at its inlet hose.

Regarding the filter model:
If you can't believe an experienced member who owns K-motos and has tens of thousands of long distance K-moto riding miles under his butt, or can't believe the suggestions in the Alternative Parts section, why don't you start a poll about the issue then let the majority of responses guide you?
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 72,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2019, 08:04:41 AM »
I apologize, if it looked like I was questioning anyone especially you, Gryphon. I plan on getting the correct hose that Laitch suggested, as well as that NAPA filter. I am just a mere beginner with these fantastic machines, and have a lot to learn not only about the bike, but also to maximize this great resource weíre using here on this forum. Thanks to all of you for your helpful input. 
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline Laitch

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2019, 08:49:43 AM »
I apologize . . .
Доверяй, но проверяй. :giggles
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 72,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,296.msg53303.html#msg53303

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2019, 09:26:27 AM »
Hey,  Ironwrx, no problem.  You gotta be careful with the stuff you see posted on the interweb.  There are a lot of experts out there who have little more than a keyboard.

NAPA filters are pretty good and will work at least as well as the OEM units.  The main thing for a K bike filter is that it has a steel body to handle the pressure and heat in the tank, and that the connections are 5/16"(8mm).

While you are at the NAPA store you can also get the fuel line.  I can never remember the SAE spec number, but I'm pretty sure your neighbor, Mr. Laitch will have it in a few moments.

Speaking of Laitch, I need to take another trip up to the Green Mountains to buy him a cuppa.  Maybe can meet you as well.  It would be nice to do Rte 100 without the snow flurries I hit the last time.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue, '89 K100RS Special edition White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too
'89 K100RS SE

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2019, 05:24:52 PM »
Доверяй, но проверяй. :giggles
Hi. Laitch -  The Gryphon suggested that you might have a suggestion of an alternative hose that I can use from NAPA or elsewhere that would work in the tank to and from the filter compared to the $32+ oem hose?
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2019, 06:08:58 PM »
This is the stuff:  5/16"   The spec is SAE 30R10 submersible fuel line hose.

http://www.napabeltshose.com/~/media/napa/documents/napa-submersible-hose.pdf?la=en
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '94 K75RT Mystic Red, '91K100RS White/Blue, '89 K100RS Special edition White/Blue
Current:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'91 K100RS "Moby Brick Too
'89 K100RS SE

Offline Ironwrx

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  • I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2019, 09:41:19 PM »
This is the stuff:  5/16"   The spec is SAE 30R10 submersible fuel line hose.

http://www.napabeltshose.com/~/media/napa/documents/napa-submersible-hose.pdf?la=en
Thanks for the info, I canít wait to call them up in the morning!! Itís been a long winter, Iíve got that itch to ride!!
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

Offline Ironwrx

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Re: Possible Water Pollution?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2019, 08:30:12 AM »
Here I am at long last with an update on my early spring fuel issue. As suggested, I replaced  the fuel hose with the submersible NAPA hose. This was due, but a clogged fuel filter was the biggest culprit in my problem. When I removed the filter, I was barely able to blow through it.  A friend offered me an original Mahle filter he had, so I didn't  end up using the NAPA filter as Laitch suggested.  I still to this day do not know what the "filler, or bondo" substance was that I found in the tank, but upon removal, there haven't been any leaks.   The bike ran beautiful, with no issues. Thank you to all who chipped in.
  • Westminster West
  • 1985 K100 83 Type 0511
- Jon

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