Author Topic: K75 Fuel Cooler  (Read 17264 times)

Offline Martin

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K75 Fuel Cooler
« on: October 16, 2017, 04:03:59 PM »
I occasionally get fuel vaporization on my black K75s under certain conditions. Running in slow moving city traffic with under half a tank on a hot day. I've installed reflective foam insulation under the tank and I have partially insulated the return line. I can fix the vaporization, and have done so by running a full tank when going into town, however this is not curing the underlying problem. Currently I am looking at TMG solution and fitting a fuel cooler, I like the design of this cooler and it's solid simple construction. However I have been stumped on where to locate it or any other types on a K75s with out forgoing the belly pan. The only solution I've come up with involves getting the local hobby foundry to cast me up a billet of aluminium , and with the use of my cross slide drill press and my high speed wood router making up a custom one. Gryph if I get the information on the site where you purchased yours the diameter is 4'' is that correct. All and any suggestions appreciated.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 12:10:53 AM »
Martin, 4" sounds about right, and about 10" long.  Internal volume is about 1 liter.  This volume is important in that it translates to transit time.  The longer the fuel is in the cooler, the more heat is removed.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 01:51:43 AM »
Thanks Gryph I'm having trouble trying to fit something that large on my bike. As you are aware there isn't a lot of room on a 75s.The only one I can find of your type is 12" with a bit of wrangling and minor fin trimming I could get an 8" one to fit and look reasonable. The 10" one while possible to physically fit but would not look real good. I have been cruising Ebay and other sites trying to find an 8'' version of yours or something that will fit and to date I haven't found much. It looks like I might have to go to the foundry and see if they will cast me a block or a bit of solid round.
Regards Martin.

  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 05:06:56 AM »
I occasionally get fuel vaporization on my black K75s under certain conditions. Running in slow moving city traffic with under half a tank on a hot day. I've installed reflective foam insulation under the tank and I have partially insulated the return line. I can fix the vaporization, and have done so by running a full tank when going into town, however this is not curing the underlying problem. Currently I am looking at TMG solution and fitting a fuel cooler, I like the design of this cooler and it's solid simple construction.
Because fuel cooling is the subject of this thread and The Mighty Gryphon's installation has been a focal point concerning this strategy, here is the link to a K100 Forum thread containing Gryph's comprehensive description and images of his installation. Interspersed in it are images of coolers used by other riders who are members of that site.
Fuel Cooler Installation On A K75RT
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 05:36:24 AM »
Currently I am looking at TMG solution and fitting a fuel cooler, I like the design of this cooler and it's solid simple construction. However I have been stumped on where to locate it or any other types on a K75s with out forgoing the belly pan.
Regards Martin.
Couldn't this mounting be adapted to Gryph's cooler on your bike?
http://www.k100-forum.com/t9594-k75rt-fuel-cooler#141407

  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 05:45:51 AM »
Thanks Laitch but room is scarce on the k75s. I've looked at the other installations and there is nothing really applicable.  The only one that I might be able to fit is Gryphs version if I can get it in an 8" version or shorten one down. There is very little room behind the belly pan or in front of the radiator. I don't want to install it in front of  the belly pan or fairing. The only spot I have come up with so far is above the fuel rail with 8" version with trimmed down fins. The other choice is to see the foundry next weekend and see if they will make me a billet that I can machine down. And I'm still chasing compact ones on the net.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2017, 05:53:30 AM »
I did find this but it might be too small to be effective. But I suppose any cooling is better than none.Available a lot cheaper if I hunt around.

Regards Martin.

* Motorcycle-Oil-Cooler-Kit.jpg (15.17 kB . 220x220 - viewed 500 times)
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline riots100

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2017, 10:22:40 AM »
Having built a few heat transfer devices in the past, (mostly to cool sensitive electronics) I would recommend that you look at sourcing copper components if space is limited. It will allow the most cooling in the smallest space.  Copper is a good conductor of heat. Most metals are pretty good conductors; however, apart from silver, ($$) copper is the best. We've used it in many cooling applications because it doesn't corrode and has a high melting point. The only other material that has similar resistance to corrosion is stainless steel which doesn't conduct heat nearly as well. 


Maybe start searching for "copper liquid heat exchangers."  I found this one with that search term. Most of what you might find would be aimed at the electronics market, but since copper is highly resistant to corrosion, it could work as a fuel cooler and withstand the environments found on a motorcycle.
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • 1992 K75, 2007 K1200GT, 1991 K100RS
----
BDJ

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2017, 04:11:52 PM »
Thanks Riots nice looking unit if only I can find a place to fit it. I might have to pull the centre section of the fairing off and the belly pan and try and work out how much room I have. Not a lot.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Filmcamera

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2017, 07:23:37 PM »
I took my bike for a test ride today after installing a fuel cooler at the weekend.  There is a definite difference - though more testing is needed to see if I can leave it where it is but so far looking good - I guess I have also increased my tank capacity as a side effect! With the extra tubing and the cooler itself I bet there is half a liter or more extra space now.

  • San Jose, Costa Rica
  • 1991 K100RS 16v ABS1, 2018 Triumph Street Triple RS 765
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Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 03:24:44 AM »
Filmcamera the K75s has no room behind the belly pan less than 10mm. the upper middle fairing in front of the radiator has probably 13mm between the radiator and the fairing mesh. I have after heaps of head scratching come up with only one place so far and that is above the fuel rail.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Filmcamera

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 07:17:09 AM »
I have seen them hung on the outside of the mesh in front of the radiator, not very pretty there but it works - I might end up moving mine there if it turns out it is too close to the engine where it is and so does not work properly.


* fuel_c10.jpg (81.82 kB . 768x559 - viewed 507 times)
  • San Jose, Costa Rica
  • 1991 K100RS 16v ABS1, 2018 Triumph Street Triple RS 765
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Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 07:58:49 AM »
I might end up moving mine there if it turns out it is too close to the engine where it is and so does not work properly.
It might be somewhat effective where it is, but it might be much more effective mounted away from the engine as in your post's image. I believe it could be integrated onto the outside of the cowl more attractively than with zip-ties though. Outside seems to be the way to go.

Once you're underway in the midst of hot weather, your thighs will tell you what to do, if you're on speaking terms with them. :giggles



  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
I wept because I had no radials until I met a man who had no splines.
https://tinyurl.com/RillRider

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 09:31:19 PM »
Just got back from my Dump day (Recycle)campout. I was hoping to pickup up a router table but no such luck. However I have got around the need for a table. After the recycle I went over to the foundry and explained what I wanted, they quoted me $25.00 for the 8" cooler $30.00 if they have to do a recast. I would have to supply a wood pattern. I went back to the recycle where the local men's shed  run a sausage sizzle every Friday and they do wood work at their shed. I told them what I wanted and they have given me a couple of their members phone numbers who would be able to route out the pattern. I've got one more mate who might have a router table so I'll give him a go before I phone the men's shed guys. It all seems to be coming together.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 02:17:30 AM »
The men's shed were unable to make a wooden pattern that the casting plant would except. I ended up routing out a wooden pattern using my drill press with a cross slide vice. I tried a couple of different tools, breaking one with a 1/8 shaft. Ended up using a 1/4"cone shaped burr grinder bit, after a lot of minor problems. I have routed thin aluminium in it before, but only up to 5mm. I needed to route out to a depth of 15m,and due to the side thrust encountered the chuck kept on dropping out. When this happened the bit would wander, I tried belting it in with a lump of wood and a hammer, it would cut two grooves straight then would wander as the chuck dropped. I tried smaller multiple cuts no go.

 I tried the old talcum powder trick. but eventually solved it by lapping in the chuck with fine valve grinding paste. I thought every thing was fine used a new bit of wood. and managed to cut two or three grooves before it would skew off. the vice table was slowly pivoting under load. I had to put additional leverage onto the bolt that clamps the table and remove all traces of lubricant. I finally managed to route out all the grooves. Under the instructions I received from the casting plant I trimmed of both ends at a slight angle to aid removal of the pattern from the sand.
 
Last Sunday I dropped of the pattern for approval, and was told to come back on Tuesday if I wanted to see the process. I brought The Ministers camera and took a heap of pictures of the process which I have been unable to shrink with Picresize. I will post at a later date when I can shrink them. The whole process didn't take long, about 45min. They use a different mix of aluminium for different castings, alloy heads pistons and other things depending on requirements. After they broke it out of the sand It was looking good, it will require a bit of a clean up but very true to the original less than 1mm difference. I will start on the clean up and drilling the galleries this week.

Really good guys at the plant I had a good look around this time. There are three sections woodwork, metalwork and the casting plant all run by retirees. While the casting was cooling I was invited into the machine shop. Heaps of equipment, I was in heaven they have two metal lathes a turret mill a small CNC router, and the guy showing me around has a 3D printer and is willing to do projects for members. He had a look at the wood pattern and said he could of saved me a lot of work and run it up in the mill and done it in two pieces and routed out the galleries. He trains guys on how to use it all. I will join in seven months time when I finally fully retire.  The yearly cost is a paltry $30.00 Au annually.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 08:48:19 AM »
Sounds cool.  At $30 to access all that neat stuff it's a no brainer to join.  Just be careful of the aluminium fumes.  Aluminium has been linked to Alzheimer's.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 03:00:50 PM »
Gryph thanks for the warning, but due to the complexity of getting it right the castings seem to be only done by a couple of guys. The furnace is located outside. I'm really looking forward to getting access to the turret mill, CMC router, and the better lathes. And possibly learning how to do 3D printing.  Due to the fact that I don't work on the days that they operate I might join up in January. At the moment I'm still having problems trying to use Picresize, I've tried both our computers and both come up with invalid image warning. I've even tried images that I have shrunk previously and get the same problem. Can any body recommend any other resizing program.
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 03:29:09 PM »
Can any body recommend any other resizing program.
Regards Martin.


Paint, included in Windows......and very easy to use.
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Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 03:43:57 PM »
Thanks Inge I don't have Paint but I do have paint 3D, I have uploaded a picture into it how do you reduce it??  :dunno
Regards Martin.
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 03:58:38 PM »
Haven't used Paint 3D, so I don't know much about that. Which Windows version do you use?
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Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 04:03:47 PM »
Windows 10, I lost Paint when we updated to Windows 10. And I haven't played with 3D Paint. I might have it sussed I'm going to try and attach to this post.
Regards Martin.

* Fuel Cooler Pattern 1.jpg (56.18 kB . 768x576 - viewed 404 times)
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2017, 04:08:00 PM »
Maybe it's hidden away in some dark corner.
Have a look at this: https://www.softwareok.com/?seite=faq-Windows-10&faq=45
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Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2017, 04:32:54 PM »
I found the dark corner, pictures of the casting process.

* Fuel Cooler Pattern 1.jpg (56.18 kB . 768x576 - viewed 440 times)
* Fuel Cooler Pattern 2.jpg (50.11 kB . 768x576 - viewed 429 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting Furnace .jpg (93.32 kB . 768x576 - viewed 420 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting 1.jpg (64 kB . 768x576 - viewed 427 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting 2.jpg (63.8 kB . 768x576 - viewed 428 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting 3.jpg (62.71 kB . 768x576 - viewed 423 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting 4.jpg (61.95 kB . 768x576 - viewed 470 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting 5.jpg (63.13 kB . 768x576 - viewed 450 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting 6.jpg (64.16 kB . 768x576 - viewed 478 times)
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline Martin

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2017, 04:50:22 PM »
I'll start the process off cleaning and drilling the galleries on Friday. I was going to use a bridge and a couple of Banjo bolts to connect a couple of the galleries. But have now decided to mill a recessed cross bridge on the back and have a cover plate welded in. I just have to find someone with a TIG.
Regards Martin.

* Fuel Cooler Casting Pour .jpg (70.35 kB . 768x576 - viewed 382 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting Cleaning 1 .jpg (40.57 kB . 768x576 - viewed 391 times)
* Fuel Cooler Casting Cleaning 2 .jpg (43.17 kB . 768x576 - viewed 384 times)
* Fuel Cooler New Casting 1 .jpg (61.55 kB . 768x576 - viewed 395 times)
* Fuel Cooler New Casting 2 .jpg (59.53 kB . 768x576 - viewed 399 times)
  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline bocutter Ed

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Re: K75 Fuel Cooler
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2017, 07:14:29 PM »
Your CNC machines are going to need code, converted from vector files, to plot the tool paths. Pixels ain't going to work ...
  • Toronto, Canada
  • '61 Puch DS60 - '66 Puch 250 SGS - '87 BMW K75s

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