Hot Stuff, need some advice

[beemrdon]

I am starting on my first summer in Las Vegas, AKA The Mojave Desert. I have been riding my K1100lt in 105 - 115 temps and the temp gauge has been dipping into the red zone, the first one, the one with the stripes. That is when the fan kcks on. But the temp gauge only moves to the left to just out of the red zone.
My question is...is it safe to ride in this heat w/o warping the head or otherwise haming the motor?  :dunno

[Martin]

Some gauges can be inaccurate. However personally until I had an accurate independent temperature reading I would not feel comfortable running that close to the red. I would check out my cooling system, thermostat, internal cleanliness, external core cleanliness. Have you been running distilled water with the correct coolant, some coolants are not compatible and can cause blockages.


I purchased a laser temperature gun quite a few years ago for about $60.00 Au they are now a lot cheaper $30.00. They are an invaluable diagnostic tool, and can also be used to diagnose other problems. Individual reading on exhaust headers will show up a bad cylinder. I very rarely get my fan coming on, and then only in heavy stop start traffic. There is definitely something wrong.
Regards Martin.

[rbm]

As Martin pointed out, the temp gauge could be inaccurate.  The temperature relay that controls the fan and the water temperature gauge use two different sensors at two different places in the cooling system.  If the temperature relay is working properly and triggering at the correct threshold, then you can trust it is doing its job.  Things you can do:
- cleanse the system as suggested by Martin (are you running antifreeze?)
- possibly use some water-wetter in the cooling system to improve thermal transfer
- clean the contacts for the temp sensor in the standpipe located at the left front of the engine
- possibly install a fan override switch
- consider using a more efficient modern fan that can move more air volume
- consider running without the lowers on the fairing

[koapono]

once you've checked your cooling system as Martin advised you should install manual fan-switch. easy to do and allows you to run fan when ever you like.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Your bike is 21 years old.  If you haven't cleaned out the fins on the radiator I am guessing that you have enough bugs and dirt in there to block almost all the air you need for cooling. 

I had to remove the radiator and soak it for a couple days to get all the crap out of the fins.  It's the only way to get everything out.  The amount of crap in mine was amazing, it just kept coming out.  When I got all the crap out of the fins and the outside was as clean as possible I got a pan and filled it and the radiator with white vinegar and let it soak overnight followed by a good flushing with clean water. 

After I put it all together I did a complete system flush twice with radiator flush and distilled water.  Then refill with the 60/40 mix of distilled water and antifreeze.  All the overheating problems i had with that bike are gone now.  I no longer have coolant boil over when stuck in traffic in 90+ heat.

While the radiator is out, you have an excellent opportunity to look at the fan and replace it with the Spal unit as well.

[beemrdon]

All good ideas, thanks. From all the bugs I cleaned off of the fairing, I must have many jamming up the radiator fins.
Gryph, what  is a "Spal unit"? I have never heard of them.

BTW, I have been running BMW antifreeze in 50/50. I changed it about 2 years ago and used distilled water.

[Filmcamera]

Spal is an aftermarket fan that lots of people have used as a replacement for the OEM one.

I have not fitted it myself because my OEM is currently fine - though I have installed a manual switch - I live in Costa Rica where it is pretty hot all year and the manual switch is essential here.

Here is a link to what is the fan most people use (at least I think it is, maybe someone can confirm?)

https://www.amazon.com/Spal-30100402-Straight-Blade-Profile/dp/B003PB44TO

Here is a thread about the fans

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,4313.0.html

[Motorhobo]

Here's the plug-n-plan Spal upgrade from Till in Germany --

http://www.jt-c.com/product_info.php?info=p158_ventilator-upgrade-k75-k100-k1100--.html

[The Mighty Gryphon]

For the extra $50 I'll pop rivet the Spal fan into the OEM fan's mount.

[Martin]

In Oz I used a fully sealed Davies Craig fan. I cut off the OEM fan motor mounting legs and lined up the concentric rings o the new fan with the OEM one and removed the surplus outer rings. I then made four tight "U" shaped clips and pushed them onto the outer ring of the new fan. I pulled both sets of blades off, and replaced the DC ones with the OEM ones. I then riveted the  riveted new unit to the old unit from inside to allow the blades clearance. I also used flat washers under the shaft of the rivets to stop them pulling through. I then fitted a bypass switch.
Never had a problem since and that was about 18 years ago, I am running OEM coolant with distilled water which I flush and change every two years.
Regards Martin

[beemrdon]

Thanks guys, lots to follow up on, for sure.
I took a couple of pics today of the temp gauge as it idled in my garage. The temp gauge got well into the red before the fan turned on. (The temp today is 102 F. so far) The fan then shut off at the place where it used to turn on. See 2 pics for clarification.

The odd thing, I think (to me) is that the temp light did not turn on. I am not sure if it even works as I have never seen it illuminated.

Question - Is this cooling system a "closed" system? It would seem not to be as the expansion tank rubber top cap "nipple" has a fairly large hole right in the middle.

I looked at the filler cap, under the gas tank, today and the coolant level is right there at the top of the neck at the exact level where I filled it two years ago.

***Some say to change the fill cap below the gas tank or the two gaskets that surround it.
Others say to change the thermostat as it may be sticking.***

Question - Would it be safe to pressure wash the radiator (from a self serve car wash) while it is on the bike??? Could it damage the fins or something?

I hope this is not too much at once.

[beemrdon]

First pic - Fan turns on
Second pic - Fan turns off But needle doesn't go much further to the left (cooler).

[Filmcamera]

I am not sure your temp gauge is 100% accurate.  Normally the fan comes on just over half way, certainly by 3/4.

[Martin]

Go buy yourself a present you deserve it. A laser digital temperature gun. It has lots of uses apart from the obvious ones especially if you have a cat. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Best-IR-Infrared-Laser-Thermometer-Temperature-Measurer-Gun-Wireless-Temp-Tester-/142272922227?
Regards Martin.

[rbm]

Question:  Will you hurt anything by pressure washing the rad while still on the bike?  Answer: yes, the fan will get damaged

Question: Should I change the filler cap seals or thermostat?  Answer: No to the filler cap seals if you see the levels in the overflow tank vary between cold and hot.  As for the thermostat, remove it from its housing and drop into a pot of boiling water.  If it opens, then its working.  If it does not open, replace.

Question: Is the temp light working?  Answer: Pull the temp relay, turn on ignition and ground Pin #A3.  You will get the indicator to light.  If it doesn't bulb is burnt out in the dash.

Question: Is my gauge working correctly?  Answer: No.  It should switch functions at the following points in its travel across the scale as follows - white is where temp gauge rests normally, red is where fan should come on, red zone is where over temp light should illuminate:




Your's doesn't so its not calibrated to the actual temperature.  The temperature response curve of the temp sensor is as follows:


So, the fan will cut in at 103*C. The indicator light will light at 112*C.  Take Martin's advice and use a calibrated temperature measuring device to understand where things are operating on your bike.  Then you have a baseline to understand if you have a bad sensor, bad gauge, bad thermostat, or what ever. 


In fact, have a good read over this document:  http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/fan-diagnosis.shtml

[beemrdon]

Thanks ya'll. Lots to follow up on.

[beemrdon]

Something very odd has happened. I changed my engine oil and other fluids and went for a ride on a 112 degree day and the engine temp gauge did NOT go into the red. My Mobil 1 15-50 oil change intervals are 5,000 miles. So WTF? That's the only variable (difference) from the day before...see above.

On another note. I no longer get email notifications to replies.

[johnny]

greetings..

profile > modify profile > notifications...

i fixt it for you...

yeeeehaaaaa...

j o

[Laitch]

Something very odd has happened . . . the engine temp gauge did NOT go into the red.

Did you ever check your thermostat for function, as in place-it-into-a-pot-of-boiling-water-and-view-how-far-it-opens-if-it-opens-at-all?

[johnny]

greetings...

when into the hunderts my motoheap will be in or near the red with the fan running nonstop...

if low on coolant or with airlock it wont go to to half and the fan still runs nonstop...

j o

[Martin]

If the only variables as stated are oil and fluid change. This points to as per JO Low coolant level or air lock. When replacing coolant always used an approved compatible  with distilled water. I use OEM coolant as there is very little price difference between it and the good aftermarket ones. You also need to burp out all the air from the system, for some unknown sometimes it is easy sometimes it requires more effort. After changing coolant go for a short ride let the bike cool and recheck the coolant level
Regards Martin.

[beemrdon]

Thanks Johnny,

OK folks, My coolant is not low. I use BMW blue 1:1, changed it 2 years ago, yes, with distilled water.
There is no air in the system. (Trick...fill it on a slant with the front pointing up, squeeze the hose too)
I will check the thermostat when I change coolant...within the next few months. Too hot to work on the bike now. I,m just happy it is not "going there" anymore.
"If the only variable as stated is oil change..." I didn't change the coolant, just the oils.
I'm thinking that the Mobil 1 is used up before 5,000 mi. and it's thermal properties are shot. My next oil change will be at 3,500 miles. As my dear old dad would say..."oil is cheaper than parts".
Am I way off...?

[johnny]

greetings...

if every 35 hundert is good then why not every thousand...

its mobil 1... i can go 20 thousand with mobil 1 and it still looks lkke honey...

its not the oil...

j o

[beemrdon]

My oil at 5K is watery and black...not at all like honey.

[johnny]

greetings...

has nothing to do with 35 hundert or 50 hundert miles... sounds like condensation... if my oil looked like that i would do the following...

1... be prepared to change the oil and filter hot... ride it until it is completely hot... drain the oil while hot... remove the oil filter while hot... let it drain for a few hours...

2... put a new filter in there and button it up... pour 1 can of seafoam in there and top it off with high detergent conventional oil...

3... ride it hard for a hundert miles...

4...  be prepared to change the oil and filter hot... drain the oil while hot... remove the oil filter while hot... let it drain for a few hours...

5... put a new filter in there and button it up... pour mobil 1 v-twin 20w50 in there and go getts you some yeeeeehaa...

6... the oil should be good... butts you will still be running hot because its not the oil...

j o